Update on the0World of Ice and Fire companion book

[Werthead]

Update on the World of Ice and Fire companion book

For those wondering what was going on with it, Ran from Westeros.org (who is co-writing this book) provided an update on what the score was:

Certainly, the book isn't coming out before ADwD. I should think 2009 seems very probable.

General update:

A few weeks ago we sent a very rough partial draft of the book to the editor. This is more to give the graphic designer to start getting some ideas as to how to layout the book. At this point, it remains largely material drawn from the books, SSM, and so on. We're not getting any super secret input from GRRM until ADwD is done -- ADwD is his primary focus.

That said, yesterday George went through our list of 1400+ characters in the series, and culled it down to a couple of hundred who'll be included in a sort of Who's Who. In the process, he categorized them by how much information would be needed for their individual entries, and there are some surprising choices there that give a bit of a hint about this or that character's importance to the rest of the series.

We've seen another of Ted (Nasmith)'s castle paintings -- jaw-dropping, as I said elsewhere. And Justin Swift is said to have been making progress on his art, and George has sent him several more suggested scenes to work on as he completes those he already has set.

And so ends the update.

 

[Boaz]

Re: Update on the World of Ice and Fire companion book

As usual, Wert is the fount of all the latest information.

I find this companion book highly interesting. You've all read my posts on how I've read J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings a gazillion times when I was younger. But I don't know that I've told you that I read J.E.A. Tyler's The New Tolkien Companion (1980) so much that the book's bindings finally fell off... I've had the companion for close to thirty years now... it's in three pieces.

Tyler seems to have done the books on his own... the first Tolkien Companion was published in 1977, four years after Professor Tolkien's death. I don't know that Tyler conversed or conferred with Tolkien while compiling the Companion... I would tend to guess that they did not work together since Tyler made the major mistake of putting forth the concept of Sauron being born an Elf. Of course, The Silmarillion was also published in 1977 and so I think that Tyler was both caught off guard and thrilled with that treasure trove of new material about Middle-earth.

One of the reasons I now think that I loved The New Tolkien Companion so much was that Tyler was unafraid to give a few postulations. Back then I did not have anyone to talk to in detail about the Noldor, Numenoreans, and Sauron. Back then I did not have the internet. Don't get me wrong, Tyler did not toss around crackpot theories like we do here... he just hinted and showed where the story was open ended... then my imagination ran wild!

Anyway, all that to say that I expect the ASOIAF companion to be exact in every detail. Even thought GRRM is co-writing it, all minutia must have his stamp of approval. I look forward to comparing a companion without any input from the author to one with his full support. I think this must both be a headache and a joyful diversion for him.

One point though, because of Christopher Tolkien's publishing of The Silmarillion the same year that Tyler released his Companion, this meant that the Companion was basically out of date when it hit the book stores. Now with the ASOIAF Companion's publishing date after ADWD but before TWOW and ADOS, I think the Companion will be out of date as soon as TWOW is published. Then I guess I'll also be buying the revised ASOIAF Companion after ADOS...

Thanks again, Wert. I'm glad you're on top of the situation.

 

[viZion]

Re: Update on the World of Ice and Fire companion book

Boaz, have you read Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series and its companion? That companion actually does a good job of expanding on the world and its characters without becoming obsolete due to later books. I'm not exactly sure when the WoT companion was released but it was definitely before book 8. I imagine that GRRM and co-writer will be able to accomplish the same effect.

 

[Boaz]

Re: Update on the World of Ice and Fire companion book

Wert, it seems I've already gone somewhat off topic with this thread. My aplogies, but it's not like it's gonna deter me from fully hijacking it!

viZ, I read The Eye of the World and I must say... shhh, I think I can hear the groans from those who've seen me rant before... okay, viZ, you're gonna hafta lean in close so I can whisper this. If Egg, TK and the rest catch me posting this for the gazillionth time, they're gonna tar and feather me... The plot goes something like this...

There's a young man from a pastoral village. Upon the advice of a wizard, he and his three best friends flee from dark creatures of the evil Overlord. They barely escape. With the dark fiends on their tail, the friends grab a ferry and lose their pursuers. A ranger, who just happens to also be a prince, leads them to safety. But the young man accidentally reveals himself to the minions of the Dark Lord and the fellowship must flee. The wizard and ranger lead the party to an ancient ruin where the wizard hopes to lose their pursuers completely. Unfortunately the village idiot awakens a nameless creature and the party is thrown into confusion and is forced to flee in terror.

That's the opening for Robert Jordan's epic... Now substitute Frodo for young man, Gandalf for wizard, Strider for ranger, and Pippin for idiot and you have the beginning of Tolkien's epic. If I may paraphrase the old TV show Dragnet... Ladies and Gentlemen, the story you just read is true. Only the names have been changed to protect the guilty.

Well, there goes my resolution to be a considerate poster...

But anyway, back to your subject. What was it like to have a companion for the first eight books when you were reading the twelfth? Did it help?

Wert, btw, do you know if the writers need someone to write out sophmoric crackpot theories or zealous Tolkien>Martin>Clavell>Everyone-else rants? 'Cause I can do both if they want...

 

[viZion]

Re: Update on the World of Ice and Fire companion book

Heh, WoT is "only" on book 11 and I haven't read it. It wasn't my intention to get into a discussion about the myriad of faults with the series as I'm already well aware of them and completely agree.

I simply wanted to point out that it is possible to write a companion book that is interesting, full of information, and satisfying without it becoming obsolete when new books are released. I merely wanted to reaffirm our faith in Mr. Martin's ability to write a book like that.

Now you must excuse me while I spend the next few hundred pages talking about taking a bath.

 

[Boaz]

Re: Update on the World of Ice and Fire companion book

It wasn't my intention to get into a discussion about the myriad of faults with the series as I'm already well aware of them and completely agree.

I'm glad you have some self-control, viZ. I seem to have none.

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Re: Update on the World of Ice and Fire companion book

Hey look everyone...Boaz is trotting out the same tired "Jordan copies Tolkien" schtick....

Seriously Boaz there are so many problems with that series and yet you stopped at the first book and continue to harp on that point. Read more and harp on the real issues of omnipotent ancillary characters (Aiel), gender stereotyping, lack of noticable plot movement in about 3 books (seriously you can skip the entirety of Book 8), and some others which I dont feel like relating now....and yet for all that it is a good read and quite entertaining...

So for the record from now on wherever you trot out the LOtR comparison to WoT without reading any more of the series, Im gonna follow it with a biased look of Shogun and trash Clavell to no end...yup thats what Im gonna do.


On another note Im going to enjoy this companion book. Theres so much information I can not keep straight that Id find it delightful. I think the wife would even enjoy it more, in fact I can purchase it as a present for her and read it myself. A two-fer that can only lead to marital bliss. What a great plan....

 

[viZion]

Re: Update on the World of Ice and Fire companion book

To continue this horrid threadjack... I do plan on finishing WoT someday but not until the final book is released. However, one of my favorite things to do is read spoofs and other material making fun of Wot's many shortcomings. If you haven't read this it's great for a laugh:

The Wheel of Time - Uncyclopedia, the content-free encyclopedia

Anyway, yeah, I'd be first in line for an ASOIAF companion book.

 

[Boaz]

Re: Update on the World of Ice and Fire companion book

Buying it as a present for the wife?!?!?! Dude, I almost spit my drink all over my keyboard!

And I think I'll just wait to purchase the final companion for ASOIAF. During the intervening years, I'll just drive seven miles to Barnes and Noble whenever I need to look something up.

 

[Falsteed]

Re: Update on the World of Ice and Fire companion book

a biased look of Shogun and trash Clavell to no end...yup thats what Im gonna do.

To the Wall with you for such treacherous talk!

 

[Boaz]

Re: Update on the World of Ice and Fire companion book

You tell 'em, Fel! Send him to the Wall!

Actually... he's already on the Wall.

Westeros is a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men. He eats breakfast 300 yards from 4000 Wildlings who are trained to kill him, so don't think for one second that we can come down here, flash a post, and make him nervous. We probably can't handle the truth! We want him on that wall. We need him on that wall.

Wow, it always feels good to paraphrase Jack Nicholson in the morning.

Soooo, 2009 is the publishing date for this companion?

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Re: Update on the World of Ice and Fire companion book

Im in the hinter regions of Afghanistan right now...having spent the morning being rebuked by a couple of village elders, getting shot at by local mujadeen and freezing to death from some driving sleet I actually decided to skip breakfast. So no I dont eat breakfast 300 yds from 4000 wildlings trained to kill me. I dont eat breakfast.

I was bitching about the weather and one of the military guys pointed out the local branch of the Himalayas (the Hindu Kush) that we were standing near...go figure, of course its cold. So Im as close to the wall as a person can be I should think.

Boaz, someday youll find a woman (or dude, Im very open minded now days) that you can buy the ASoIaF companion for. I promise.

The question is what is this companion going to cover. Is it going to flesh out the world or merely regurgitate stuff we already know. I dont want spoilers, theres just so many other people and places that are only hinted at in our POVs...

 

[Werthead]

Re: Update on the World of Ice and Fire companion book

The only confirmed material in the companion book at the moment is:

A history of Westeros.
More information on certain institutions such as the maesters, the Faith of the Seven etc.
More detailed maps of Westeros, the eastern continent, the Free Cities, Slaver's Bay etc.
Possibly castle maps as well.
Tons of illustrations, including Tolkien artist Ted Nasmith's take on just about all of the major castles of the Seven Kingdoms.
A 'who's who' of Westeros which will consist of some 200 entries. However, there's been some talk about including a character index listing all 1400-odd named characters who appear in the series so far (this is actually some feat, as the first ten books of WoT 'only' managed about 1700 named characters between them).

It sounds like the book will be written from the POV of a maester writing at the time of the series. Information up to and including ADWD and possibly the new Dunk 'n' Egg novela will be covered. There will be no spoilers for Books 6 and 7, but some info in the book will apparently prefigure those books. Apparently we have met some characters who haven't done much yet but will have larger roles in Books 6 and 7 and it may be possible to figure these out from who gets detailed entries in the 'who's who' list and who doesn't.

At one point pages from the White Book were also going to be reproduced (I think the entries on Barristan Selmy and Arthur Dayne were heavily requested) but I think that's not part of the plan now either.

It's also worth remembering that the second version of the Song of Ice and Fire RPG is on its way from Green Ronin and as with the first version from Guardians of Order (which is still the best companion book to the series available) will likely feature lots more detailed info on aspects of the series we haven't seen yet.

Oh yeah, and apparently either the world book or ADWD will also feature the introduction of a new, unified name for the eastern continent (apparently it won't be 'Easteros') as well as an explanation why no-one's used it for four novels previously.

 

[Falsteed]

Re: Update on the World of Ice and Fire companion book

Twas only a joke, I'll be on the wall come summer, though probably in more arid climates; unless Tormund and the rest of the wildings decide for peace, which seems unlikely.

 

[Boaz]

Re: Update on the World of Ice and Fire companion book

Godspeed, Felsteed.

Thanks a bunch, Wert.

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Re: Update on the World of Ice and Fire companion book

For some reason "Easteros" made me laugh...I shall now refer to any land Dany has passed as Easteros from this point forth...

And Falsteed...remember the instructions on Claymores, mortars dont make the whistling sound we hear on cartoons, and dont stick out from anyone around you.......and stay safe.

 

[Boaz]

Re: Update on the World of Ice and Fire companion book

Westeros and Sothoros are known. We're waiting to find the names of the eastern continent... Easteros, Austeros, Osteros, Auroros, Orientoros, etc... and of the continent east of the eastern continent (in Qarth, Quaithe told Dany she had to go farther east to Asshai, but I go the feeling Qarth was on the east coast of the east continent)... and of the northern continent (if there is one) Nothoros, Norsos, etc.

Dany still has to pass through the happy breakfast land (Cheerios), the land of good-byes (Adios), the land of her birth (Embryos), the land of executives (CEOs), the land of aliens (UFOs), the land of the gods (Olympos), the island of love (Eros), the land of the freshmaker (Mentos), the land of tortillas (Burritos), etc...

On the positive side, many sci-fi and fantasy authors try to use the letters Q, X, and Z to denote the foreign"ness" of other languages. Martin has only done a little of that... but compared to the amount of work that he's done in adding to the "englishness" of the language of Westeros it's all good.

 

[Culhwch]

Re: Update on the World of Ice and Fire companion book

I know a few people who could benefit from a trip to the land of the freshmaker.

 

[Boaz]

Re: Update on the World of Ice and Fire companion book

Ha ha ha!

 

[Werthead]

Re: Update on the World of Ice and Fire companion book

More from Ran:

Presently, the plan is quite a large number of geographical maps, so the castle plan thing has fallen by the wayside. That said, there's still art budget available, so ... who knows?

Currently we're still operating from the first section or two being written as if from "in world". The advantage for us is, basically, the fact that an "in world" perspective has an excuse about not knowing everything or actively getting things wrong, whereas if it's from a purely authorial perspective. Not the whole thing though -- I don't expect that the character bios will really be written as if some maester is doing it.

The eastern continent, so far as I know, will still be named -- I've got the name down in a couple of sections of the history -- but don't expect anyone to explain why it hasn't been used until now. My gut feeling is that Westeros is synonymous with a relatively cohesive, nigh-continent spanning culture, so it makes sense the people mention it a lot ... but the eastern continent (hoped I'd let it slip, eh?

is a lot more fractured culturally speaking and there's really no point to naming the whole continent -- it doesn't convey anything more than "across the Narrow Sea" or "the Free Cities" does.

Just my guess as to what a "in world" explaination would be, though.