Death of Lyanna (Alternate Theory)

[Charming Serpent]

It is 7am here eastern and I havent slept in like 20 some odd hours so forgive me if this post is short and perhaps doesn't make sense. I will repost later and with greater detail.

I was laying here about to doze off when a thought randomly popped into my head about Lyanna and her death.

What if she hadn't died in childbirth like everyone thought?

Very few details are given except from what we read from Ned PoV. All that is stated in there is the room smelled of blood and roses, her clothing was spattered with her own gore and that the fever had taked her strength.

I have two alternate theories: (pardon if they have been posted before)

1. Lyanna harmed herself out of grief. Whether that being about the news of Rhaegar or perhaps she had finally learned about her father and brother. She did state how she wished to rest beside them as one of her last comments before she died. Perhaps a botched suicide was the reason for her injuries and fever.

2. Someone at the Tower of Joy was ordered or took it upon themselves to harm her if things went bad. Now that is a stretch considering the Kingsguard that were there, but crazier things have been ordered and happened. AND we don't know if there were any "civilians" present. There is one sentence in AGoT from Ned's 1st PoV that nags me ..

"Ned remembered the way she had smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm, dead and black. After that he remebered nothing. They had found him still holding her body, silent with grief."

Who is THEY? We know it was 7 against 3 and only he and Howland survived that fight. So, who is THEY if only Howland was still alive? Someone else was there and that can have major implications concerning many major theories. A caretaker, a wetnurse (Wylla?) etc etc ....

3? One could also throw in there that Lyanna tried to intervene during the Tower of Joy fight and somehow got hurt.

Possible baby Aegon theory and rant:

Either way, it is never stated that a baby is present (yet). We know Ned travels from there to Starfall in Dorne with Dawn in hand and Ashara throws herself into the sea after. Perhaps that is where a baby was being kept. Arthur Dayne WAS Rhaegars closest friend. And though Ned is the paragon of honor per se, it seems odd that he would go all the way to Starfall with Dawn whether he had something with Ashara or not while the war was not offically over and the fact that his sister had just died. (perhaps with a child there or not)

Well, talk amongst yourselves.

 

[TK-421]

Well, I give you a big "E" for Effort but no passing grade.

Your #1, a botched suicide: No true Stark would ever commit suicide and Lyanna was as true a Stark as Ned.

Your #2, murder: The presence of the Kingsguard and the question "why?" pop up here to say this was unlikely. Unless, it was one of the Kingsguard who did it, but again "why?"

Your #3, an accident during a fight is the more probable and what if the secret Ned has been hiding was that he was responsible for her death, however, I still it is a simple matter of her dying in childbirth.

 

[Apopas]

Your #1, a botched suicide: No true Stark would ever commit suicide and Lyanna was as true a Stark as Ned.

When someone goes to such a high level of despair so to be able to commit suicide, then names count as nothing. Stark or not she was a young girl and maybe she wasn't as strong in will as we think.
Also, yes, Charming Serpent has a point here. Who is this THEY?

 

[DeannaBelle]

"They." My grandma talked a lot about "them" for the last year or so before she died....

 

[Charming Serpent]

LoL DB. Still though, I am quite surprised that while I was gone in the UK that I had no massive responses to this thread. TK, I expected as well as Boaz, Kiwi or Egg, but only seemed to rope one out of the 3 in.

We assume Lyanna died in child birth. I agree with that theory myself, but the ones I offered up do not seem out of the realm of possibility considering GRRM's pechance for throwing things up like that.

Also, seriously..... who are the "They" that Eddard sepaks about?

Speculate please.

 

[MrWright]

LoL DB. Still though, I am quite surprised that while I was gone in the UK that I had no massive responses to this thread. TK, I expected as well as Boaz, Kiwi or Egg, but only seemed to rope one out of the 3 in.

We assume Lyanna died in child birth. I agree with that theory myself, but the ones I offered up do not seem out of the realm of possibility considering GRRM's pechance for throwing things up like that.

Also, seriously..... who are the "They" that Eddard sepaks about?

Speculate please.

My speculation would be that Howland Reed (who of course is a survivor of the skirmish) and another bannerman who died of his wounds later in the day.

But, then again, it could also mean Dornish peasants who helped tear down the Tower of Joy and build the cairns of the people that died there.

Or...it could have been reinforcements from Robert's army in case there was any trouble.

Lots of speculation...I'm sure it'll be clarified if one of the Stark children (or perhaps Catelyn) talks to Howland Reed.

 

[Mechaniik]

I think it was just Ned's emotional state - 'they' are Howland Reed

 

[Boaz]

Somehow I missed this thread six years ago. I dunno that I buy any of it, but I find it interesting.

Suicide. Lyanna's father and brother were executed by her lover/husband's father. Her lover/husband (not according to my A+L=J theory) was killed by her former fiancee. And now what will happen? Her abusive, drunken, steroid taking, frat boy of an ex-boyfriend/former fiancee will murder her love child and force her to marry him if he does not beat her to death first. Suicide seems better to her than forcing her two remaining brothers to die in her defense.

Lyanna was struck down in the combat. Seven against three... kinda sounds like a Greek tragedy. I know Eddard had a Valyrian Steel blade. But he killed Arthur Freaking Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. Even BFS respected AFD. This idea may actually give the best explanation of how Eddard defeated AFD. Lyanna runs out trying to stop the bloodshed and is wounded by AFD... and while he is in shock from striking down the woman he's sworn to protect, Eddard runs him through out of sheer rage.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Suicide is a possibility though, i think, unlikely. It is possible that she was injured in the fight but, again, I think unlikely. Ned clearly states that he would have died if not for howland reed, so my inclination is that he didn't kill AFD (thanks for accronym Boaz), but that Howland Reed did.

and finally, my impression of who"They" were, was always that "They" were his bannerman. Not the ones involved in the fight, but the host that would undoubtedly have been with him. You don't think that Ned rode with just a company of 6 men from Stroms End to the ToJ do you? During war time? if Clash of Kings taught us anything, it's that the roads are never safe during war time, even for 7 famed fighters. Likely Ned would have had an army close by but, knowing his sister was there, and who was guarding her, would have wanted to settle things personally. Likely he gave orders along the lines of, "If I do not return by the hour of the (insert suitable animal), then come after me". I also think that this is when the value of howland reed comes into play. When Ned was sickened with grief, Howland Reed took the necessary precautions to ensure that none of the men in Neds army (who may have included some stormlands men, loyal to Robert), knew about Lyanna's baby.

Howland is exacly the kind of person, possibly the only person, who would have been able to avoid detection and keep a baby safe while on his own or with a small band of other crannog men, bringing baby Jon to Starfall, at which point Ned is able to publicly acknowledge the baby, leading to rumors that Ashara or the wet nurse Wylla, was Jon's mother.

 

[Groot]

I saw this theory the other day, which makes a case for dany being rhaegar and lyanna child.

now I initially though this was far fetched, but what do we really know about Dany childhood, the house with the red door, and the rest was told by visereys.

there also seems to be lots of holes appearing in the r+l=j theory.