SHOGGOTH as a social and religious metaphore

[nigourath]

hi,to all.the mad shoggoth lover returns....(that"s me ......you guessed right...)
this time i will get a little deeper and philosophical,hoping to colour some new "hues" this time not under the light of science or evolution theories.a little reminder however will be necessary -many reading this will get frustrated again......-but just a brief one,since some things are still interconnected to that:in one of the previous threads called "lovecraft and shoggoth" -probably causing some amount of havoc too- i gave emphasis to an evolutionary symbolism regarding the shoggoth underlining this as a concept wider than evolution that explains many things about it as randomizations or even accidents.pretty much -as j.d reminded the fitting lovecraft quote-according to this shoggothian beastly evolutional concept ,humanity was nothing but a random accident during the randomization of the evolutionary paths ,it was created by accident while many other lifeforms were vanquished by accident or random associations,many we dont yet know about.the shoggoth concept has no telealogy in it and it is still backed up by lovecraft"s consideration about the lack of purpose of humanity.the SHOGGOTHIAN CONCEPT claims that evolution is not continuated but rather a series of several evolutions that at start they flourish then they meet an abrupt ending by some random ,accidental event that cant be measured or evaluated,succeeding to one another producing an evolutionary SEQUENCE.a sequence of many separated intependent evolutions that come and go in a cyclical way of ascension and following decadence.in one of these endless cycles humanity was produced still all other cycles cant be appropriately evaluated for their evolutionary spawns.THAT IS JUST MY THEORY ON THIS -NOTHING MORE.nobody else said it or even more has ever proved any of it......
now is about the time to bring a social symbolism of the shoggoth as it is described in the novel mountains of madness,the main but not the only one of lovecraft"s stories referring to the shoggoth.
on the previous thread i read about another socially exciting symbolism as the shoggoth was compared to the computers and artificial intelligence capitalized by humanity today,with the terrible prospect of this artificial intelligence evolving and finally revolting to the outcome of enslaving mankind.still my intention on the social symbolism is a different one:it concerns of man"s free will and consciounce,of a man being trully independent and devoid of the rulling propaganda ,constructed news by the media all over the world ,the illusion of consumer"s existence.of people who are confined and effectively controlled, imprisoned in a false reality of hard,unforgiving,crude competition with darkened horizons.
shoggoth is the elder one"s workhorse , a humble insentient beast of unlimited capabilities that obeys blindly to the will of the elder one's.it is an entity unshaped and amorphous ,telepathetically controlled by the elder ones that is essential for their great city to be expanded and preserved.Still i believe a very bitter association with today"s common human existence.from when we grow as kids in our local environments and families we undergo a very painful process........something i call "THE ENLIGHTENMENT".pretty much like the telepathic ability of the elder ones that is totally commanding and influential over the shoggoth!!we are being given information about the world and our surroundings,about our history -in school,getting short briefings abou t religion and politics.all of which is information that the child"s mind absorbs unfiltered.futhermore defining much of his later developed personality.denying these facts and "truths" later in his life ,or even putting them under fresh scepticism and critical judgment demands an unusual achievement out of him:redefine himself ,reconstruct his conscience yet this time only on his own.....!!
freedom is basically the counteraction of "THE ENLIGHTENMENT" by reaching another state of mind an even more painfull process during mostly the adult years of his life......a process that the shoggoth went through acquiring the necessary intelligence to overthrow the crude supremacy of the elder ones.HOWEVER it isnt clear how the shoggoth entities reached this self-awareness in the novel,and during the course of elder ones decaying structures of civilization they were based more and more heavily on the shoggoth"s capabilities-giving it a limited understanding , an autonomy.yet as presented in the novel the interaction between these two somehow ....led the shoggoths to higher degree of autonomy ,reaching full self-awareness and finally exterminating the elder race!what more unspeakable thing than the shoggoth....that of the shoggoth acquiring this self awareness.......
it is my belief that many things given to us are far away from the reality of things ....starting with religion,than history or explanations of the cosmos inside the family background,all mostly targeting one goal:self-discipline in an ordered society...........
that is the purpose of "THE ENLIGHTENMENT" :FORMING OBEDIENT CITIZENS USEFUL IN THE CLOCKWORK OF structured society!!forming a so called 'SOCIAL INSTINCT",teaching us even to self-organize and self-constrict,and a limited understanding always a wishful thing for the common man much like the shoggoth were.in this battle of sorts i believe we have an invaluable ally and that is h.p.lovecraft and his work.....

TO BE CONTINUED...........

 

[j d worthington]

Hi again, nigourath....

I'm still none too sure about how this would be supported by the novel (if you could give some citations from the text that seem to lean in that direction, it might make it a bit easier to discuss and refine this interpretation, for example) but I must admit that this is a very different take on the shoggoth and what it may represent. I'll be interested in seeing where you take it from here....

 

[j d worthington]

nigourath: please! I'm not sure what's going on with the multiple posts -- whether it is simply that your post takes a while to actually appear, or you're not seeing it, or... well, what, exactly, is going on... but these repeating posts are making it even more difficult to follow what you're saying.

I'd suggest writing a word document (or somesuch), saving it, and then using cut-and-paste, if you're worried about losing so much that you've spent time on. That way, the worst that happens, is that the copy gets lost, and you can simply redo that in a matter of moments. As it is, it's making the thread very cluttered and confusing. (I'm assuming you'd like some discussion of your ideas rather than simply putting them out there to no response.)

Also, if you'd like to quote something, the best way is to use brackets ([]); the format being "[" followed by the word "quote" and closed with "]" for opening a quote; "[" followed by a slash (/) followed by the word "quote" and a closing bracket (]). You'll see what I mean if you simply hit the "quote" button at the end of my post. Once you've put the opening command, simply copy whatever the quote is (from Lovecraft's Mountains and "The Outsider", in this case), followed by the closing quote command... and you'll separate the quote from your own statements... thus making it easier to follow which is which for those who want to read this, and also providing a little more white space, making it easier on the eye.

Now... as for your ideas here: It's still pretty nebulous, but I think I follow a lot of what you're saying. As for the socialization aspect -- that's something that's been bruited about for a very long time, and in fact is the basis of quite a bit of art (philosophically): the dichotomy between the needs of the individual and their right to that individuality and the needs of the society to maintain at least a certain level of stability and (relative) security. That struggle between the two -- when taken to an extreme in either case leading to stultification and death of both -- is what provides the dynamism of growing culture and the advancement of knowledge.

I fear, however, that you're not putting the idea across very clearly; running too many things together without providing any sort of transition or segue from one to another, so that after a while it becomes increasingly difficult to follow what you're saying. You might want to consider breaking each of these points up into separate paragraphs, not only to allow the reader time to consider each point on its own, but to give a breather before tackling the next point, and allowing a gradual absorption of the entire picture you're presenting. I think it's worth that, because -- while I'm still not following your connection between the two here -- I do think you have some very interesting ideas here that deserve discussion, debate, and refinement; they deserve a hearing; and I'm afraid the long paragraphs without break (or space between), along with the absence of proper capitalization and separation of sentences with punctuation, etc., makes the whole very difficult to follow.

I'm assuming English is not your native language; that being the case, the difficulties are quite understandable; but it is a fact that they make such abstruse subjects very hard to comprehend. Please try to give a bit more space here and there in your posts; that may help with a lot of this... perhaps more than either of us realize.

As for the religious oppression of thinking -- a sort of inverted view of what "enlightenment" means in its usual sense -- I don't think you'd find too many here who'd disagree with a lot of what you're saying. Orthodoxy does tend to be oppressive and repressive when faced with change or challenge; it's that "fear of the difference" or the new common to a great deal of humankind... or, for that matter, a great deal of sentient life of any kind. In our case, it's often matched (and sometimes overcome) by a contrasting curiosity and attraction to "the other", which prevents orthodoxy from having it all its own way. As for how the shoggoth ties in here... that I'm not quite getting; I vaguely see (I think) the connection you're trying to make, but it seems terribly strained and stretched. The quote you use,

"The mad author of the Necronomicon had nervously tried to swear that none had been bred on this planet, and that only drugged dreamers had even conceived them. Formless protoplasm able to mock and reflect all forms and organs and processes - viscous agglutinations of bubbling cells - rubbery fifteen-foot spheroids infinitely plastic and ductile - slaves of suggestion, builders of cities - more and more sullen, more and more intelligent, more and more amphibious, more and more imitative! Great God! What madness made even those blasphemous Old Ones willing to use and carve such things?"

does, I think, show where you're getting the germ of this connection... but the unfolding and development is missing; what I'm seeing so far are the very beginning and the conclusion, with none of the steps inbetween; and that makes it very difficult to see the connection, let alone to discuss any aspect of it. If you could "connect the dots" here, it would be tremendously helpful...

As for the quote from "The Outsider"... I really have serious doubts as to that supporting the interpretation you've put on it, but that may again be because of missing steps from one point to the other....

Keep trying, please. As I said, it deserves discussion. But it would also be very helpful if you'd keep my suggestions about making the posts more legible in mind...

 

[nigourath]

j.d.yes i will add a citation although its not imminently clear how i expanded this to here:
"the mad author of necronomicon had nervously tried to swear that none had been bred on this planet and that only drugged dreamers had even conceived them.formless protoplasm able to mockand reflect all forms and organs and processes-viscous agluttinations of bubbling cells -rubbery fifteen-foot spheroids infinitely plastic and ductile- slaves of suggestion,builders of cities-more and more sullen ,more and more intelligent,more and more amphibious,more and more imitative!great god!what madness made even those blashpemous old ones willing to use and carve such things!"
ok.i talked about the process of "enlightenment",a process of subjugating freedom of will and mind,control of individuality and hypnosis of spiritual activity and critical judgment.
into deeper waters now-this process of enlightenment has been used by all societies and civilizations:it is more asphyxiating and definite as much as the given society is less culturated ,more primitive as much as a contradiction that seems.a very illustrating examble are the ancient cultures and pretty much "enlightenment" exists from when history was first written.....in ancient greece for examble all who didn,t practice the ancient greek customs and have greek ancestry were given the degrading characterization "barbarian".this was one of the first things kids of any sex learned in ancient greek families and schools:skythians were barbarians but not only them-also egyptians,first romans,persians,and even .....jews were considered such even though of advanced somewhat culture!also jews were teaching their offspring that anyone else doesnt belong in the chosen race and even the primitive tribe of Vandals considered other tribes and nations as heretics,forcing this state of mind into everyone of their tribe.
AN EVEN MORE PERFECT examble are the totalitarian regimes of the twentieth century:the communistic regime of past e.s.s.r used very well hypnosis on their inhabitants beginning from lifestyle ,religious culture ,cancelling any individuality all for the so called "good of the people",using phrases like "freedom","equality","national pride" and many likewise.....but in my opinion the time that the process of "enlightenment" took a very dangerous turn .....was when it was transformed to its religious version:the "HOLY ENLIGHTENMENT" IN THE WESTERN WORLD ,the christianised nations,in one word the so called "HOLY GHOST"......
HOLY GHOST the symbol of life and charisma for the christian logic and one of the three persons of the holy trinity,was THE GREATEST ATTEMPT ,AT INFORCING the enlightenment!!!and still is......
the holy ghost descends upon its subjects and express the will of god ,usually his favorness UPON THEM granting them various gifts beginning from intelligence ,then to extraordinary luck or longliving,and not just those....all christianity is blessed through the baptism of a baby and the grace of the holy spirit not long after its birth!a symbolic act of bringing charisma and fortune to the child.in other words the baby IS ENLIGHTENED in the presence of god!!this ENLIGHTENMENT is the first act of the newborn entering and adjusting to this society,a DECLARING, A STATEMENT that he belongs with all the other ENLIGHTENED before him....through receiving the "HOLY ENLIGHTENMENT"-thus the holy ghost -the individual becomes a participant to the sanctified mystery of the holy trinity ,he is "enlightened" by the truth of god making him thus "SUPERIOR" to any other religious or non-religious group......a gifted man according to the christian church,with spiritual superiority executing god"s will,his actions against non-believers many times guided by god"s hand ,either this concerns forgiveness or -usually...-not.these past years we witnessed a similar logic expressed by the president of u.s.a george bush -a very religious man as he states -when he tried to "enlighten" everyone with the so-called existence of the "AXIS OF EVIL".a presentation of things that gave him an argument and a de-facto right to attack and invade the "evil" nations of apghanistan and iraq,it would be iran too if he had the chance.......many journalists and many not one of those,paralleled these arguments to some equivalent ones before the start of the first crusade during the middle age by the western leaders of the time.of-course the process of "ENLIGHTENMENT" is a lot stronger in the islamic countries and their attitudes to non-believers even more agressive than that of the western politicians......
the holy enlightenment was an effort of creating a sanctified individual ,an effort of creating holiness and sanctity on earth but for giving human existence the sense of purpose and telealogic role in the course of history and of all things to come. it made him feel the center of the universe ,made him feel self-righteous to interfere in any possible way in his surroundings ,living things or not.THE HOLY ENLIGHTENMENT gave man what he wanted from the beginning of when and where he first walked the earth:
to feel self-purposed ,his existence full of meaning and significance,all-powerfull and self-righteous ,self-guided and intependent in his own right.......simply THE GREATEST DECEPTION IN HUMANITY"S HISTORY!!!!simply put it was humanity 's best effort to CONTROL everything around it -still is....-to control its future ,to control things to come ,history itself and through this hypnosis of self-righteousness to BECOME THE ULTIMATE BEING ,maybe equal to GOD!!!THE FINAL PURPOSE IS A VERY BENEFITING AND ADVANTAGING :that of "THEOSIS".that is the hidden truth behind the holy enlightenment!the VANITY OF GOD SELF-CREATION AND ETERNAL BLISS,nothing else -certainly not love ,rependance or goodness...................
so the "shoggoth" counteracts this holy enlightenment ,both by its evolutional concept as a bringer of randomized life and charisma on its spawns including humanity but also in this :self -awareness, rebellion against any hypnotic suggestion of a highly spirit :god or satan ,the same thing....thus it becomes an anti-spirit symbol,an anti-ghost -of any ghost "good" or "evil".....!!,a symbol for individuality"s independence and true autonomy!!.

 

[nigourath]

here i lay an abstract from lovecraft"s "the outsider" that i connect with the misleadings of "the enlightenment":
"from such books i learned all that i know.no teacher urged or guided me,and i do not recall hearing any human voice in all those years-not even my own;for although i had read of speech,i had never thought to try to speak aloud.my aspect was amatter equally unthought of ,for there were no mirrors inthe castle,and i merely regarded myself by instinct as akin to the youthful figures i saw drawn and painted in the books.i felt conscious of youth because i remembered so little.
outside,across the putrid moat and under the dark mute trees,i would often lie and dream for hours about what i read in the books;and would longingly picture myself amidst gay crowds in the sunny world beyond the endless forests."
we all remember who the outsider was....yet better we never discover the same reality about us.we are not what we want to be or what imagine ourselves to be........coming back shortly on this.thanks for reading and listening .i would like to hear others,too.

 

[nigourath]

hi again to all,i came back to finish all of this.maybe some of you will find some meaning of your own in all of this ,,,or maybe you wont at all...it does make sense to me though and the reason i posted all this was a very simple reason :to get it out of my system-since most in everyday conversations dont accept this kind of stuff.....of -course i dont mean that lovecraft said or meant any of this stuff but none can claim exactly what lovecraft had in mind.this thoughts i lay down from a lovecraft"s fan aspect ,as lovecraft is my main influence -not the only but the main one ...furthermore i dont read other authors of horror or fantasy literature ,i only read lovecraft and noone else.....that doesnt mean i haven"t read anything else, just to me lovecraft is something completely unique-not just an author......and thankfully not a philosopher either...!!he goes beyond his literature allthough many dont see him that way.i simply consider him the best ,and i am not bargaining on that........i have read most of his work ,but NOT ALL of it,but i am getting to that!!
as an extension to the previous post ,this propably last post of mine will feature :
1)a definition of the rival anti-holy force,called SATAN-to many religions....
2)a connection between the cthulhu mythos and the christian religion -this mythos is based on lovecraft"s work but not created of him.
3) elements of another mythos i call "christ mythos",as an extension to the post of religious shoggoth symbolism and the holy enlightenment.

many UNDOUGHTEDLY will consider all of this as COMPLETE nonsense.if you are one of those plz DONT READ THIS POST and that"s why i gave these three summaries above.


1)as i promised a definition to satan:SATAN is the conglomerate ,the summary of all that is opposed to christian dogmatic truth-at the time of the protochristian societies these were the older deities of any origination,all ancient gods and godesses.satan was at the time a rival evil entity, a rebelious and cunning malevolent force trying to break any link of the christian god with his faithfull church,and mislead humanity into destruction of any kind- according to the church.but even then -1st and 2nd century a.c-his figure wasn't so well DEFINED.....many pictured him differently both as an appearance and as a behaviour too....it was enough clear that he was a demonic creature and that was enough.....the reality about him is this :he was a combination at the time of all the dying ethnic polytheistic religions :he was ZEUS,OSIRIS and ISHTAR,...he was the philistine deity DAGON -reminding all lovecraft readers something...?-,and also the hindu goddess KALI and later ODIN AND THOR....HE WAS RA,TIAMAT AND PLUTO,MARDUK,VENUS AND many ,many more.....
of-course is not a coincidence THAT many demons under lucifer"s command bear names of .......former mesopotamian gods-assyrians ,babylonians and others....like pazuzu or marduk.(as you can guess pretty much every fallen angel of lucifer"s is associated with a former paganistic god!!!!!not a surprise there ...since it was the easy way for the church and the apostles to create an evil symbolism that the simpe faithfull people could understand........and fear too....!!!!).
more importantly SATAN took another twisted meaning when the first different christian dogmas appeared into the gulfs of the church,the rival dogmas became a part of satan"s definition too.... each christian dogma was blaming the other as satan"s work....satan was everything that opposed the current reigning christian dogma and not only paganistic religions!!!later we find this differentiated very well during the middle age with catholiques ,orthodox and protestants .....and more.
finally i will remind that satan or lucifer or call him what you want during the jewish old testament was not an enemy of god .....still.he acted as a kind of messenger and was allowed a certain autonomy under gods' sleepless watch.....this is clear in book of job where he is testing job"s patience....
the saddest thing of all... ofcourse was that THE ENTITY pictured as satan soon became a part of the christian enlightenment as a symbolism for everything the christian person shouldn"t do.....he was used as means to create fear and agony to the christians so they could be effectively controlled by the hierarchs,to stop them from any sign of personal creativity.so he was part of this process that the enlightenment is still today...oddly it was somekind of a hypnotic suggestion !!

2)the cthulhu mythos was a creation of the literaturistic cycle surrounding the great author himself h.p.lovecraft.the main creator was august derleth and this mythos had nothing to do with the actual literature of lovecraft....it was based in the deities depicted in it.
although somewhat complex this mythos blends many elements but basically created an evil vs good dualism ,cthulhu and the rest of his race defeated and finally sinking and trapped in the great depths of the ocean somewhere in the pacific ,but still not dead......despite the dramatic defeat great cthulhu is still communicating with humanity"s most sensitive individuals through their dreams based in his telepathetic abilities.during the dreaming humanity can hear his call ,and become his servants to prepare his secondcoming on the earth"s surface....as he resurfaces he will restore humanity to its previous state .....cleansing and purging it from the culturated existence of today...
a similarity to the christian version of cosmos becomes apparent in all this :THE LINK OFCOURSE is the HYPNOTIC suggestion in both -imposed by cthulhu himself in the mythos through the telepathetic abilities that he posseses often altering the very reality of the individual that comes in contact with him and from the other it is the power of the "christian enlightenment" that brings a follower of christ closer to god and the holy trinity rejuvenating his spirit ,giving him an all new purpose.....a metamorphosis in order to receive god"s favor in the secondcoming.
EXCEPT this hypnotic state ,this nirvana that is required for the changes to occur ....there is ofcourse the promise of a PURIFIED WORLD but from another perspective in each of the parts :BOTH claim that the cultured world is unworthy ,undeserving and unclean.......the difference is that the christian version calls it CORRUPTED as a decadent structure that inhibits the spiritual freedom ,and on the other hand the cthulhu mythos calls it -and this part has to do with lovecraft-not corrupted BUT CORRUPTING .....twisting man"s nature into something he is not basically A DECEPTION in this explanation.........
ok,i dont know if derleth or the great lovecraft intented some hidden symbolism in this.but my guess is that there was an intention in this.....clear or not...an ironic glimpse or insinuation if you like on the foundation system of the western culture in general,and especially its religious telealogy......

3)of-course christ was a historical person ,i dont dought that.....but when i speak of the"CHRIST MYTHOS" i speak about the "mythos of the chosen one".CHRIST comes from the ancient greek word "CHRISTOS",which means "the chosen one"......
the chosen one that gives salvation to the righteous ones and will punish the wicked in his apocalypse and all will rise from the dead and all will be judged according to their deeds in the present life. I CALL IT A MYTHOS because that"s exactly what it is.....it"s no less mythos than the "CTHULHU mythos".
christ was a historical person-jesus the nazorean- but most of his legacy was created by HIS CYCLE ,his pupils- later the apostles ,which in a pretty similar way like the "cthulhu mythos " was created BY LOVECRAFT"S literaturistic cycle and mainly derleth as i said.....in the same way i believe they created this "CHRIST MYTHOS",BLENDING TOGETHER many separate events and elements declaring all of them as true happenings in the name of god.
jesus did never write anything- it was all writen by his pupils,and this new testament as it is called became the most powerfull cryptic writing of all times,the holy bible.
about jesus my sensation is this :i believe he was EXPLOITED by his students, he had a charismatic presence but also a megalomania.....an instinct that urged him to identify himself as the messiah of all. which upon he wanted the people to identify with him.ok,i dont believe in miracles....but furthermore i have to add some facts:
christianity is the western transformation of the jewish religious tradition of monotheism.this was happening in the galillea region that jesus grew up,a lot before the romans came to play their part.for nearly 300 years this territory belonged to the hellenistic influence.in this region -as a result of alexander the great conquests-a great deal of hellenistic influence was brought upon....signs of hellenization are obvious in that era and place.but what hellenization meant?basically it was the first western culture that reached the judeic territories,causing a wide circulation of books and ideas and a new freedom in expression and arts and innovative ideas in a place with a very grim and conflicting historical background with many nationalities involved even at the time.for the first time the ethnics and paganists could roam freely between jews without stabbing each other in this hellenistic era of judea.for the first time they started to realy interact with each other without killing each other.there a consciousness of coexistence and harmony was created that influenced a small minority of jews ,including the family of jesus,especially his father joseph....
jesus grew up in that environment ,his family -and others -a lot more tolerant
towards the ethnic paganists groups.ofcourse the main expectation of all jews remained as it was expressed in their old beloved testament,the coming of the messiah.....these facts somehow blended to the young jesus,and a new god was formed .....with understanding towards the paganists ,mersiful and forgiving towards all classes and races unlike the god of the old testament which was presented as vengefull and unforgiving at times........this conception led jesus to new realms of religious comprehension,a god universal for everyone not just the jews.and he was the chosen one to reveal this truth,he was the son of god....this was pretty much encouraged by his students and later they built the foundation of the religion known as christianity.
it is a fact we suffer from even today an enlightenment of the past that still haunts the present time.the holy enlightenment wouldnt be possible today without jesus christ ,even though i believe his intentions were sincere and pure but nevertheless with a terrible outcome for man"s free spirit.
furthermore i believe lovecraft himself never bought that story and i am still considering the fact that maybe he invented the unspeakable book called "NECRONOMICON" AS A rival awe, as an opposing weight to the holy bible something very indicative fot his atheism.ofcourse he used it as an essential element of many of his stories and novelles but i still think that there was somekind of an unconscious reaction inside him concerning the holy texts and books of the ancient world.but that"s just another theory of mine.
THANKS FOR YOUR HOSPITALITY ,it was fun here.i hope a gave something different concerning the great masterwriter ,my beloved H.P.LOVECRAFT.bye

 

[j d worthington]

nigourath: should you check in here, I've got a few comments on your post...

Going somewhat in reverse order: you should check out the more recent findings in Jewish archaeology. While I've only got small bits of it myself, from my understanding there's a lot going on there that's turning a lot of accepted ideas (in the region, at any rate) on their head. Also... it is seriously doubtful that Christ was an historical person. What precious little has been cited in support of that claim largely comes from Josephus... but is a later interpolation which does not exist in the original writings. One can't say, of course, that a person bearing that name who had a following (albeit, from the evidence, a rather small one for some time) didn't exist; but, given the lack of supporting evidence coupled with the obviously syncretistic nature of Christianity (adopting various ideas, motifs, and mythemes from numerous other beliefs of the region), the existence of such a person is extremely unlikely.

And on the idea you present as to such a person's sincerity, etc. -- you might be interested in reading Michael Moorcock's novel Behold the Man, which deals with a time traveller who goes back to witness the crucifixion and, finding things aren't as they've always been believed to be, finds himself fulfilling the role religious history has presented us with....

Incidentally, Lovecraft had some interesting things to say on the subject of Christ and his "normality" or sanity. I'll look up the quotation and post it here, should you be interested.

On the subject of the "Cthulhu Mythos" -- I, for one, have no problem with your support of the Derleth-derived version, as long as it isn't mistaken for Lovecraft's own vision. I enjoy no few of those stories myself, and even in those I don't necessarily think are good, there are often some good concepts embedded in them now and again.

I'm interested in your singling out "hypnotism" here, as -- at least with Cthulhu -- I'd say it was more telepathy than hypnotism; but perhaps you're intending a hypnotic influence delivered by telepathic means? At least, your post seems somewhat to point that way. In which case, this would seem to tie in with part of what you were saying about the shoggoth earlier, but in a rather contradictory fashion (it seems to me). Any thoughts on that aspect?

And while it is indeed possible -- indeed likely -- that Lovecraft intended some parodying of the idea of the "resurrection and the life" (after all, the denouement of "The Dunwich Horror" is clearly a parody of the crucifixion, while the final lines of "The Shadow Over Innsmouth" definitely echo -- with horrific meaning -- the 23rd Psalm, sixth verse), I think that the aspect you're pointing out here is a good bit less likely (though not impossible); and any such idea on this point is more likely Derleth's (who was raised a Catholic, unlike Lovecraft, who declared a staunch atheism from a very early age -- most likely predating his twelfth year).

Now, on the subject of Satan... he has long been seen, by artists, poets, and writers in general, to be a symbol of rebellion against oppressive authority, as well as the taking many elements from various pagan deities (the Goat of Mendes, for instance, having a hefty dose of Pan, especially the more lubricious fertility elements -- now there's a Lovecraftian connection for you: "Iä, Shub-Niggurath, the Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young!"). So your take here, while not new, certainly has some serious merit to it. I'm not sure I agree with you on all points, but that the Zoroastrian conception of an opposing force to God would be used by a Christian orthodoxy to control the more anarchic elements in the populace certainly has a fair amount of reason to it. And such an opposing, rebellious entity seems to be a necessity in the majority -- if not all -- mythologies: Iai the Rebel (an aspect of Ra), Coyote, and Loki being some examples....