Janny Wurts: Are the Koriathain misguided, corrupted or evil [SPOILERS]

[Grimward]

Re: Janny Wurts: Are the Koriathain misguided, corrupted or evil

An observation, if you will.

In addition to being rather expensive, there was a secondary price to be paid for having SF in hardback (again, Book Club edition);

......the font is this size.......

I swear my eyes get tired twice as fast! Will be ready, though...

And am I still grimey?!!! Could have sworn I washed last week....or was it the week before????

 

[Clansman]

Re: Janny Wurts: Are the Koriathain misguided, corrupted or evil

It's just that your screen name (cool avatar, btw, though not as cool as Rane's ('splosion cat!)) lends itself to that kind of nick name.

Promise to shower when you finish the book!

AND FINISH IT!

 

[Grimward]

Re: Janny Wurts: Are the Koriathain misguided, corrupted or evil

No, it's hard to top Rane's (and I've told him/her so). Right: Book, then hygiene...book, then hygiene, book then hygiene, book then......

 

[The Procrastinator]

Re: Janny Wurts: Are the Koriathain misguided, corrupted or evil

And while you're at it, don't forget to blink now and then - your eye looks rather hot and dry...

 

[Grimward]

Re: Janny Wurts: Are the Koriathain misguided, corrupted or evil

*Grim enters with 12 string in hand (lyranthes being rather hard to come by in Maryland), positions himself at top of a windswept rise that stands athwart the 5th lane as the sun sets, the ebb in flux offering the most opportune time to summon the Horsemen without days of flux withdrawal. Head stock down at tip touching the awakening earth of the Maryland Spring, he strums one perfect E chord, spun to the lane's harmony. Like lightning, the chord builds, cresting the Appalachians and arrows north to find the Clansman.

Grim strums but one more chord, and the barre D reverses flux, following the 5th lane down the Eastern seaboard until it intersects at the circle near the equator with the 7th lane. It crosses ocean and land alike, picking up resonance from the rising sun, until at last it arrives at the circle in Perth. It tarries but a moment to birth two slender tendrils, then dissapates. The tendrils arrive simulataneously where Dekket abides and the haunts of The Procrastinator.

As the Clansman, Dekket and The Procrastinator register the fine nuances of wave flux, a soft but clear message is heard in the chords.....come, Horsemen, come....

 

[The Procrastinator]

Re: Janny Wurts: Are the Koriathain misguided, corrupted or evil

Enter Procrastinator, riding Bobby, a miniature horse. They are followed by Penelope, a sweet-natured but rather stupid goat who thinks she is going to be fed.

Procrastinator sets up a picnic on the grass, gets a bottle of single malt whiskey and some clay goblets out of the saddlebags, and leans back to enjoy the sun and watch the animals eating.

 

[Grimward]

Re: Janny Wurts: Are the Koriathain misguided, corrupted or evil

*A G chord later, Grim joins Pro at SF-moot (if ents can have a moot, why not Wurts' Horsemen?), brings apples for Bobby and some soft rye grass for Penny (why disappoint?!). Looks with interest at the single malt, but then considers it in context with the effects of lane transfer and opts for an initial green tea, instead. Unpacks some Brador (the original, of course, and not the pale imitation they tried to sell in the US!) for the Clansman and Barons Black Wattle for Dek, along with the Coopers stowed for the Pro initially*

Your health, my good P. The single malt might sound better after a few Stormed Fortress postings to transmute the effects of lane flux.

*pulls up some turf and parks, waiting with P for Dek and Clanny*

 

[Clansman]

Re: Janny Wurts: Are the Koriathain misguided, corrupted or evil

The Clansman strides down from the highlands of the Laurentian Shield to the focus circle at Lanark, and transfers with the aid of Grimward's awakening of the fifth lane. The smell of fine Islay malt greets him, and draws him inexorably forward. His lochaber axe is almost forgotten in his hand, the result of the harmonies raised in the lane flux. Grimward has awakened the Paravian wards to greeting, instead of forbidding.

I will happily indulge in the Islay malt, as it is wondrous stuff for Clansmen the world over (powerful, but no hangovers). Your health, my fine bear and my forbidding friend. A jar of honey from the bees of the Boreal forest. I understand bears are fond of honey.

The Clansman has arrived, and seats himself on the turf beside Grimward, the lochaber axe leaning against a tree.

The last of the horsemen, Dekket, is due soon...

(But then we should all transfer over to the thread I started for SF spoilers...)

 

[Grimward]

Re: Janny Wurts: Are the Koriathain misguided, corrupted or evil

Agreed, with one "small" point of protocol to attend to here, first. I think, perhaps, we should proceed with meting out judgement on everyone's favorite witches, then hop over to the SF thread, if the rest of the SF-moot is in agreement?

Hopefully we won't have to fashion a beacon spell to summon Dek; having consumed the sweet rye grass, Penelope has started devouring the trees that would anchor our spell....(maybe she's a wraith in disguise!!!)

 

[dekket]

Re: Janny Wurts: Are the Koriathain misguided, corrupted or evil

Dekket, muttering furiously about a lame nag of a horse (which is being pushed along in a wheel barrow before him), hobbles forth.
Has decided dragonback is a much better way of travel.

But now that Stormed Fortress has revealed more details about the Koriani order, shall we jump once again into the depths?

The Koriani . . .

What thread for SF spoilers? (rushes of to find the thread).

 

[Grimward]

Re: Janny Wurts: Are the Koriathain misguided, corrupted or evil

As the last to finish the book, I've been hesitant to interrupt, Dek, but I think 8 days might have been sufficient...then again, it wasn't sufficient for me to finish the book...

OK, down to business. As with all good SF-Moots (this being the first one, it's ALL GOOD!), we must have an order of business. Also, as I am most decidedly not up to Arithon's masterbard standards on my 12-string when it comes to transmuting the maladies that attend lane flux exposure, I propose the following before I succumb to its after-effects:

1. Deal with the Koriathain once and for all

2. Hop over to the SF thread and then pursue

• The s'Brydion
• Of Davien and Dragons
• Feylind
• Hierarchy of Oaths and the Degrees to which they bind
• Alestron and the Likelihood of a Single Point of Failure (could be merged with the s'Brydion above)
• Fionn Areth: Relevant, or Author's Foil?

I have more, but it would be piggish of me to monopolize the agenda here.....

 

[The Procrastinator]

Re: Janny Wurts: Are the Koriathain misguided, corrupted or evil

Bother, I need to reread SF, I can't remember what happened with the Koriathain in that anymore! The other things you have listed keep driving it out of my head.

 

[Grimward]

Re: Janny Wurts: Are the Koriathain misguided, corrupted or evil

Sorry Pro, a quick and partial cheat sheet to spur the synapses....



AND SPOILERS ABOUND HERE!!!

1. They try to cozen Lysaer while he's seeing to his critically wounded and lending his gift of light for cautery (although the healers themselves don't engage in this chicanery)

2. They spur Parrien and his sailors to hack basically defenseless, Alithiel-addled Sunwheel troops to death

3. They use Parrien again to attempt to reveal Arithon after his wounding (and may have had a hand in the wounding itself, although I don't remember seeing such reference) in the boat departing Alestron...

And please contribute to the order of things, too. We can address the witches when Dek and Clanny have their two cents in.

BTW, I tried to get back on Janny's site to add the 3rd of our foursome over there to a particular discussion thread, but it's no longer liking my logon.... (and how's THAT for a teaser...!)

 

[DarrellR]

Re: Janny Wurts: Are the Koriathain misguided, corrupted or evil

Well I'm in between books since I broke my rule of reading too far ahead in a series that isn't finished yet (Curse you Steven Erikson for such an enjoyable series!) so was thinking of giving this a try. Where do I start? If it is said in the thread already my apologies but I didn't want to read too much since I know there are spoilers in the thread.

 

[Grimward]

Re: Janny Wurts: Are the Koriathain misguided, corrupted or evil

Curse of the Mistwraith is the first, DR, and give it a few chapters to lay the underpinnings. As I've said elsewhere, I'm a little biased when it comes to Ms. Wurts' stuff, but I hope you find it as enjoyable as I do. If you want a shorter series, pick up her Empire books, which build on the world Ray Feist created in Magician. The first book in that series is Daughter of Empire. Happy Wurts-ing!

 

[dekket]

Re: Janny Wurts: Are the Koriathain misguided, corrupted or evil

Sorry Grimmy, had been having computer problems and haven't been online recently. And had forgotten I had left things hanging.
But considering that no one so far has been able to deal with the Koriathain once and for all, perhaps you are being a litttle ambitious.

The Koriani in Stormed Fortress were:
able to withstand the influence of Arithon/Alithiel for a remarkably long time.
The Prime and her seniors seemed more than willing to utterly exhaust the sisters with them, just to extend the time they had to meddle in the siege.
Morriel/Seldide seemed almost afraid of the effect of Arithon/Alithiel on the besieging army.
What effect would it have had on the crystals, Lirenda, and even the possessed Seldide?
They were able to protect Parrien and his troops from the calming effect of Arithon/Alithiel. And at the same time spur them on to murderous rage/actions.
Koriani workings don't seem able to be enforced within the Paravian fortress of Alestron.
Morriel/Seldide seems more willing to let Arithon be killed/injured again, rather than aiming for a capture.

I might have to re-read the book again to pull out a few more points.

Darell, you could also try reading the Cycle of Fire trilogy by Janny, starting with Stormwarden.

But do give Curse of the Mistwraith a try, and stick with it for the first few chapters, which many people seem to find difficult.

 

[Grimward]

Re: Janny Wurts: Are the Koriathain misguided, corrupted or evil

No apologies necessary between Horsemen, Sir Dekket.

In order of appearance:

"The Koriani were able to withstand the influence of Arithon/Alithiel for a remarkably long time"

I think, by this, you're referring to the temporary peace/truce Arithon wrought with Alithiel and the seeming fact that Selidie and her senior circle were able to maintain their cyphers w/o falling under the same spell by association, correct? Would guess this is because the sword's song wasn't directed specifically at them this time, unlike earlier in the book when they tried to sieze on Elaira's tie to Arithon as Sidir lay dying. In the earlier instance, with the sword drawn in Talvish's grasp, all it took was their attempt to constrain free will and Arithon's protest, and the sword made short work of their conduit, overmastered the Skyron crystal, threw Selidie back into her chair and severed her hold AND her scrying in one fell swoop.

Verdict: Prime willing to impair/prevent the saving of a life to obtain her goal for Arithon. Senior circle raises no objection, however feeble. Prime evil, seniors corrupted.

"The Prime and her seniors seemed more than willing to utterly exhaust the sisters with them, just to extend the time they had to meddle in the siege."

Agree here, and it's definitely not the first time, either. Arithon's responses to the Prime's indescriminate use of her circle completely exhausted Selidie's (actually, Morriel at the time, I think) troops once in Grand Conspiracy and again in Traitor's Knot if memory serves.

Verdict: Prime evil, Seniors really have no choice in the matter.

"Morriel/Seldide seemed almost afraid of the effect of Arithon/Alithiel on the besieging army." and "They were able to protect Parrien and his troops from the calming effect of Arithon/Alithiel. And at the same time spur them on to murderous rage/actions."


Absolutely. See previous post to Pro ( who, along with Clanny is no doubt biding her time ); this fear was the motivation for Selidie's coercing Parrien to butcher the Alithiel-bewitched Sunwheel troops, leading domino-like to Sulfin Evend's re-kindled animosity toward Alestron and prompting Lysaer's relapse-driven second attack on Alestron with light, which of course resulted in his attack on Evenstar, provoking Arithon to respond with Shadow, breaking his promise to Sulfin Evend, etc. etc. Without Parrien's Koriathain-imposed berserker rage, we'd see a very different tale here.

Verdict: Prime evil, seniors evil. Equal parts contribution to the slaughter of defenseless soldiers without a single uttering of "I'd rather perish than cause any more such bloodshed" from the lot.

"What effect would it have had on the crystals, Lirenda, and even the possessed Seldide?"

Need you to 'splain some more here, chief, clarifying what "it" refers to...Alithiel? Not catching your drift! Remember: Pro warned all that I'm slow...

Verdict: To be determined, pending elaboration.

"Koriani workings don't seem able to be enforced within the Paravian fortress of Alestron."

Nope. At this point, Koriani workings, Arithon's mage-trained/masterbard prowess, and even the Fellowship of the Seven (who Janny explains in an archive on her chat site) are head and shoulders above the rest when it comes to the depth and scope of their power) are not the equal of Paravian constructs. So, the Koriani are able to scry if a "subject" who has previously been subjected to their workings is inside the walls, (Elaira as example), but cannot "enter univited" as it were....

"Morriel/Seldide seems more willing to let Arithon be killed/injured again, rather than aiming for a capture."

Absolutely again. Death or subjugation of Arithon himself or indirectly thru his progeny is Selidie's chosen path to re-establishing Koriani ascendency. Doesn't matter who she has to kill, corrupt, impede, coerce, etc.

Verdict: Prime evil, Seniors also evil for seeing this with open eyes and continuing to allow Selidie's crimes to escalate w/o intervention/protest. Self-preservation is a powerful instinct, and so we see that it doesn't matter to her circle what Selidie does, so long as she doesn't call their oath due with their lives forfeit in the bargain.

*The SF Moot pauses, a hush settles over the ground as Grim and Dek look to Pro and Clanny expectantly...*

*Grim, having labored doggedly here, takes Pro up on her proffered single malt*

"Ah, that's proper."

 

[dekket]

Re: Janny Wurts: Are the Koriathain misguided, corrupted or evil

Originally posted by Grimward

"What effect would it have had on the crystals, Lirenda, and even the possessed Seldide?"

Need you to 'splain some more here, chief, clarifying what "it" refers to...Alithiel? Not catching your drift! Remember: Pro warned all that I'm slow...

By "it" I was thinking of the enforced peace of Arithon/Alithiel. It bound the besiegers in slumber, and managed to subdue the Mistwraiths Curse.
How would this peace clash with the enforced Domination of Koriani spellcraft?

 

[Clansman]

Re: Janny Wurts: Are the Koriathain misguided, corrupted or evil

Okay, I'm at work, and cannot post at length on the above topic (in court in 20 mintues!). But...

DarrellR, welcome to the Chrons. If you are an Erikson fan, I think you will enjoy The Wars of Light and Shadow. They are very different, but in terms of reading intelligent fantasy that is complex, these two series stand above the rest, even Martin. They are also "higher" fantasy than Martin. All three authors put the "E" in epic.

Also, you have the benefit of 8 large books to read, with three more to come. That's a lot of good readin'.

You may want to try To Ride Hell's Chasm, which is a one-shot novel that is really fast paced, but that demonstrates Wurts' style quite nicely, without investing in a whole series. Also, this book is more recent than the ones mentioned by my fellow horsemen (women? not making any assumptions).

I'll be back for more discussion and single malt later...

 

[Grimward]

Re: Janny Wurts: Are the Koriathain misguided, corrupted or evil

Originally posted by Grimward


By "it" I was thinking of the enforced peace of Arithon/Alithiel. It bound the besiegers in slumber, and managed to subdue the Mistwraiths Curse.
How would this peace clash with the enforced Domination of Koriani spellcraft?

OK first an administrative order of business. I inquired with the moderators as to whether it was possible to replace the question mark icon on the thread with something indicating "Spoilers" (at least the exclamation mark). Culwch indicated that the icon can't be changed once posted, but he did edit the title to append the '{SPOILERS}' now present. I hope this is OK with you Dek (you did create the thread), but since most of our content would likely thrash any element of suspense a reader could have, it seemed reasonable to me...if not, I'll ask Cul to remove, of course....

With the above clarification, it seems that Alithiel, in keeping with the law of the greater balance that individuals are granted free will, did not negate the "suggestion" geas placed on Parrien and crew(s) by the Koriani. I think the book describes their spell as augmenting his inclinations, rather than turning him into a slave to its mandate. Apparently, while the Mistwraith's geas abrogated free will (and so was suppressed by Alithiel's song), the spell on Parrien, etc. wasn't oppressive enough to qualify.

Verdict: Peripheral, although it gives insight to the lengths Selidie/Morriel will go to achieve her means, so maybe we once again give her the "evil" rating!)

Clanny, no offers to represent Dek if he decides to sue over illegal "title change"!

Pro, Pro, wherefore art thou?!!!

And regarding your uncertainty over Horsewomen, I'll let others educate you Sir Clansman (and re-educate me, apparently, as I continue to say "Horsemen"!)

P.S. What do you think of the Black Wattle brew? (Hoping you do partake of such; if not, apologies abound!)