A Question of Ethics

[Mark Robson]

I see that once again proof copies of my books are appearing on ebay long before the official launch of the actual title. ( Mark Robson - Firestorm Dragon Orb *BRAND NEW Aug 2008 on eBay, also, Children's Books, Books, Comics Magazines (end time 30-Mar-08 19:44:50 BST) ) The book clearly states 'Not for Resale' on the cover as it is intended for reviewers and booksellers to read before the launch.

Personally I have no problem with the growing trade in proofs, which are often seen as highly collectible because they are the true, uncorrected, first editions. However, what I do object to is the fact that certain unscrupulous individuals seek to cash in by selling the proofs long before the books are available in the shops, hoping that fans will scrabble to be the first to read the new titles ... and therefore be willing to pay more money for them.

The publishers turn a blind eye to it, but the question is: should they? Surely this is a breach of some sort of regulation.

 

[Lenny]

Can you yourself not get involved? Maybe send a message to the seller requesting that they take the book down? If not, then I'm sure you or the publisher are well within your/their rights to bring legal action against the seller.

I'd kill to get my hands on advance copies of books, but selling them on eBay?! That's lower than stealing sweets from a baby.

 

[Pyan]

I'm sure I've seen that eBay themselves have stopped articles being put on the site when they've been approached about it...don't they have any obligation to ensure goods are legally able to be sold?

Why don't you put a whacking great bid in yourself, Mark, then refuse to pay it when you win? I can't see that the vendor would be in any position to complain.....

 

[j d worthington]

Most likely the best options are to ask the seller or e-bay to remove the item because of these concerns. Whether the response will be favorable or not is another matter.

As far as Mark himself pressing the issue beyond that... then you may be getting into legal proceedings, and that can get very expensive, and drag out for a very long period of time... especially if it's a case involving a principle with extensive ramifications such as this....

 

[M@.Price]

I agree, it is the sort of collectible people want. I also think it shouldn't be allowed to be sold before an official release. E-bay will probably remove it on request.

Look on the bright side, it means people obviously think your work is worth a lot mark!

 

[Mark Robson]

Stopping one sale won't do a lot. This seems to be quite a widespread thing these days and this will no doubt be the first of many such copies that will appear. My wife (being a barrister) got all upset when it happened with Imperial Spy and sent out lots of emails threatening court action. At the end of the day, though, does this do anything other than get people talking about the author in a negative fashion? Sure I could send the guy an email asking him to take the book off. That would be easy. But do you ever think that person would have a kind word to say about me again? My golden rule has always been to 'be nice' in all circumstances. The more people who think well of you when you are in the public eye, the better. One rotten apple and all that.

Who knows who this person might be? It could be a bookseller. It could be a reviewer. In fact it's unlikely to be anyone other than one of these, as the proofs are only sent out to people in the trade. Do I really want to hack off this person? I think not. The question is, if the author cannot risk complaining, who should it fall to?

 

[Locksmith]

It strikes me that it falls firmly at the feet of the publisher - they're the ones sending out the proof copies after all. The problem is that, aside from the very largest publishers, I doubt most of them could afford the negative associations either.

It should, at least, be possible for publishers to track who's leaking the proofs. Watermark some of the pages with a unique number and keep a schedule of who each copy is sent to (I've dealt with embargoed documents marked in this way). If there are persistent offenders, the decision could be made whether to make an example of them (i.e. the illegal music downloaders approach).

As for taking legal action, sorry if I sound naive, but do the people receiving the proofs actually sign up a document undertaking not to sell on. You'd need this to sue. If I am a reviewer and just get sent an unsolicited proof with "not for resale" marked on it, I'm under no obligation not to resell it - there's no agreement between me and the publisher on which to sue.

 

[Ursa major]

I think you should stick to your Golden Rule, i.e. trying to be nice in all circumstances.

The focus of your concern on one aspect of this problem, that some of your fans are being taken advantage of, does you credit. Doing anything more may be taken out of context and you don't deserve that.


(I won't say what I think of those selling review copies as this is a family forum.)

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I'm afraid, Mark, that there is no obligation to follow the publisher's wishes in the matter simply because the proof says "Not for Resale." At least where reviewers or convention attendees are concerned, no one has signed any contracts or agreements or made any promises, and once a copy is out of the publisher's hands they have no legal or moral right to say what happens to it.

There may be agreements in place between booksellers and publishers; I'm not sure if that ever happens, but I've never seen a proof for sale in any store that sells new books either, so it's a possibility. Or maybe bookstores forbear as a matter of professional courtesy. But in all other cases it's really up to the individual's personal ethics to decide what to do with a proof once they have it.

I've been given proofs at conventions (small conventions with lots of pros in attendance, like World Fantasy, or the Nebula weekend) as part of my convention packet, quite unsolicited on my part, and in some cases not even books that I wanted. But I couldn't sell them; to me that didn't seem right. Yet I've known authors to resell proofs they've picked up in this way, and they see no ethical or moral dilemma. The thing was given them -- possibly even pressed on them -- they now own it, and they figure they can do with it as they will. Presumably, they don't mind when positions are reversed.

 

[Mark Robson]

I guess all I can hope is that the books sold in this fashion find good homes and that the purchasers feel they got value for money. Ho hum.

 

[Patrick Mahon]

Sorry to hear about this, Mark. Regardless of the legal position, this does seem a very unfortunate situation. Do you know how many review copies were sent out, and do you have any indication of whether the eBay copy has come from a professional (press) reviewer, or from another source?

 

[Julie Bertagna]

Hi Mark,

It is wrong and it's pretty widespread (if that's any comfort). There was a big discussion about this a while ago on the Achuka children's book website. An author threatened legal action to Achuka and the upshot was a big debate and lot of bad online publicity for the author. So there are big risks in complaining.

I thought hard about it and eventually was persuaded by Darren Shan's argument that the way to look at it is as a kind of free publicity. If someone thinks your book is worth selling on ebay then it's a compliment. Darren thinks it has definitely worked in his favour.

There are plenty of good reasons for you not agreeing! But the reality is, to be honest, that publishers see it this way too, so it's a lone, brave author that takes a stand. I also don't mean to be cynical - and I would far rather people paid me for the book I've spent several years writing - but I think if there are a handful of copies on ebay then Darren is right, it can be a positive thing. People are seeing the cover of your book at the very least and a bidding war might make the bid losers (and others) seek out your book. I would be worried if there were too many copies on ebay though.

What I find much more pernicious and worrying is those Amazon sellers - who had my new book (£10) on sale days after it was published - at £1. How is this possible?! Neither Amazon nor its sellers responded to complaints other than with a 'suggestion' that unhappy authors can have their books removed altogether from the Amazon site. This stunned me until I read a report that said Amazon makes a much bigger profit from its sellers than from its own hugely discounted fiction sales.

It's a murky old business. There's an entire industry making piles more money out of books than the authors ever do. It feels all wrong. Makes me want to weep.

Didn't mean to depress you even more! Just trying to find a positive slant on the murky stuff.....

 

[Julie Bertagna]

PS - I should add that Achuka stated that proofs were never sold prior to publication, and this seems to be the line in the sand for most people, as you say.

 

[Mark Robson]

Thanks, Julie, your comments are most helpful. As I said before, I have no problem with people selling proofs - far from it. I understand the collecting bug as well as anyone. It's selling before the published date that irks. I can also see the positives that Darren Shan has mentioned. I find it particularly irritating that the books are clearly unread by the person in question. As, by the mere fact that they've been sent a proof, this person must be in the industry in one form or another and expected to read the proofs they are sent. This selling on without bothering to read first seems a particularly unsavoury form of profiteering to me.

As you quite rightly point out, the whole publishing world can appear to treat the majority of authors as second class citizens at times, perhaps worthy of being thrown a dirty old bone every now and then. I'm not saying I fall into this category - in fact I feel as if I've been treated very well by the industry to date, so I'm not one to whine by habit.

I suppose there will always be something that will cause us to bristle at times, though. This was just one of those little irritations. No one seems to be taking much notice of the proofs appearing - I'm not sure whether that's a good or a bad thing now. I think I'll just have to choose to ignore it from now on.

 

[Julie Bertagna]

Like you, I try not to whine. It sounds ungrateful when I'm very fortunate to be able to do something I love. Having said that, it's work. It's my living. So I fight for my rights (within reason), as any worker would!

 

[Mary Hoffman]

I have a slightly different take on this. The bound proofs (as opposed to genuine review copies of the finished book) are not printed in such vast numbers as to make a great deal of difference to our incomes. What was it Mark - about 500? And they will be sent to the trade anyway so all we're losing is the royalty on the re-sale so it's the same as with secondhand copies - peanuts.

What bugs me is that the proof copy is not the same as the finished book! Now, if every e-bay buyer would be so nerdy and collector-orientated as to buy the finished version AS WELL in order to compare the two, that would be just peachy, and bring in a royalty too.

Somewhere 'out there' is an American bound proof, with pretty jacket, of The Falconer's Knot, set by Bloomsbury US without my permission or knowledge from the original, first draft, CD I sent to Bloomsbury UK. Characters have different names and there is an acknowledgment to an academic who did b****r all and got excised from the final version.

That did rankle but then if someone had wanted to buy it on eBay even before publication I would have minded only from an aesthetic, not a financial point of view.

Mary

 

[Mark Robson]

I'm not bothered about losing the royalties, Mary. You misunderstand me. It's the fact that people are looking to profiteer on copies that were never meant to be sold ... before the publication date (which is the crux of my irritation) in order to try to coerce the keenies into parting with money for something that isn't (as you quite correctly point out) the finished article. It's irritating that they are not being read, as intended by the publisher.

I've not been told what the print run was. I don't imagine it was many, which, of course, does make them all the more attractive to those who collect this sort of thing.

I'm not about to get a big grump on about the whole thing. It's just not worth it.

 

[Julie Bertagna]

I don't think it's grumping, Mark. The publishing industry is fascinating, exciting, increasingly complex - and can be infuriating! And everyone involved in it has different excitements and frustrations along the way.

And I'm experiencing all of the above this morning re the fascinating, exciting, complex and infuriating issue of electronic rights !

 

[silvarbullet1]

Hi Mark,

It is wrong and it's pretty widespread (if that's any comfort). There was a big discussion about this a while ago on the Achuka children's book website. An author threatened legal action to Achuka and the upshot was a big debate and lot of bad online publicity for the author. So there are big risks in complaining.

I thought hard about it and eventually was persuaded by Darren Shan's argument that the way to look at it is as a kind of free publicity. If someone thinks your book is worth selling on ebay then it's a compliment. Darren thinks it has definitely worked in his favour.

There are plenty of good reasons for you not agreeing! But the reality is, to be honest, that publishers see it this way too, so it's a lone, brave author that takes a stand. I also don't mean to be cynical - and I would far rather people paid me for the book I've spent several years writing - but I think if there are a handful of copies on ebay then Darren is right, it can be a positive thing. People are seeing the cover of your book at the very least and a bidding war might make the bid losers (and others) seek out your book. I would be worried if there were too many copies on ebay though.

What I find much more pernicious and worrying is those Amazon sellers - who had my new book (£10) on sale days after it was published - at £1. How is this possible?! Neither Amazon nor its sellers responded to complaints other than with a 'suggestion' that unhappy authors can have their books removed altogether from the Amazon site. This stunned me until I read a report that said Amazon makes a much bigger profit from its sellers than from its own hugely discounted fiction sales.

It's a murky old business. There's an entire industry making piles more money out of books than the authors ever do. It feels all wrong. Makes me want to weep.

Didn't mean to depress you even more! Just trying to find a positive slant on the murky stuff.....

I follow almost exactly the same lines along a music-industry approach.
I am studying Sound Engineering at university and whilst not (currently) an artist myself, it annoys me that 90% of people I know pay for 10% of the music they own. That means that an awful lot of people download most of their music without a second thought for those who wrote it, those who performed it, those who recorded it, etc, etc...

Of course, in the music industries case they take the opposite stance and are aggressive as they can be. Which has either
(a) No effect whatsoever. (I don't know anyone who has stopped downloading music illegally)
or
(b) Annoys everyone who likes music. (I know that as a legitimate music purchaser: 98%+ of my music is legal, I get very annoyed by DRM, copy-protection and all manner of junk that the music industry come up with)

In some ways, Mark, you could consider yourself lucky!

I just checked ebay and didn't find anything untoward, by the way. Although search for DVDs and CDs (especially hard to find originals) and you'll be lucky not to find a few dodgy ones.

Anyway, what I'm really trying to say in all this, is that all of the media industries are suffering in some way but all have much to gain in the digital one-world 21st century economy.
And I feel your pain.
Keep up the good work.
I sent a message to you (Mark) via your publisher contact on your website (how I found this site) so hopefully that will get to you. Anyway, to explain who I am:- I'm Dan the sound engineer from Spring Harvest minehead in the skyline, I got Imperial Spy signed by you. Loved it!

sb1

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

This may be rubbish so please forgive a naive idiot...

It seems to me that if there is a 'case' against a publisher or anyone involved in the supply chain in these unsavory goings on, copyright for example. It should be looked on as a possible pension plan.

In time to come when you no longer have the strength to lift your digits to the keyboard. When you no longer have the will to put quill to paper and the danger of upsetting your future royalty providers are long long behind you. When everything that used to give even a smidgeon of pleasure is now just an endless soul destroying tedium.

At that time you can turn to the the 'secretary' who attends to your faltering decrepid body, drawing him/her near to be better heard (and coincidentally catch a glimpse of his/her firm young muscular body - else you may as well be dead) in your best crackling gurgle of a voice you can say

Sue the b******s.

It's something to look forward to in the short time we all have left.