Small Favor - discussion (SPOILERS!)

[Highlander II]

This is for discussion of Small Favor.



~~ THERE WILL BE SPOILERS IN THIS THREAD ~~



Spoilers do not have to be hidden in this thread. If you are reading here and have not read/finished the book - this is the warning post that spoilers will abound! Proceed at your own risk!

 

[Bibliophile]

I really enjoyed this book. I feel like several disparate elements came together, there was some great storytelling, and I only regret that it will be another year before the next one comes along.
So that being said. Does anyone think that Nicodemus is dead? Obviously the coin is still out there, but what a blow to the Fallen if the human element is gone!
And Harry and Luccio? (sp?) hooray for Harry, but that will definitely be problematic going forward...

 

[K. Riehl]

Murphy turns down Fidelacchius, the sword of Faith. ?? And now Harry has Amoracchius to hand out as well? I guessed that Murphy was in line for the sword of Faith but it will take some persuading, or an act of Faith to pick it up.
I don't think Nicodemus is dead and he will be part of the big showdown whenever it happens.
My favorite part of the book was the litany of scars that Harry explains to Luccio.
FBI Werewolves, hook knife used to try and disembowel him by Necromancer, manacle scars from Red Court vampires trying to sell him on Ebay.....

 

[Highlander II]

I'm one of the (apparent) few who thinks Fidelacchius won't go to Murphy. It's not that I don't think it's possible - it obviously is - but that I think it's too obvious a choice.

I'm not jumping on the 'ship, but I love Harry and Luccio together. They amuse me.

And Jared Kincaid... I like getting character info - I'm big on backstory, learning that stuff was interesting to me.

I'm working on my 2nd read-through to grab details, so there will probably be more that I recall as I go along.

 

[Shingetsu]

I'm sure Murphy will pick up one of the swords eventually. That or something magical has to happen to her later on. Luccio and Harry is okay for a fling, I guess. Though sounds like Lara can give Harry a hard time (no pun intended) in the future now since he broke the true love thing with Susan that protected him. Doesn't surprise me that Michael isn't a knight anymore though, he said it himself in a earlier book.

I wonder why Harry didn't just tell Helen about her daughter being in a coma. She's still trying to destroy Marcone anyways, atleast then she'd know the truth.

Have to wait a damn year till the next book...

 

[Highlander II]

I think Harry didn't tell her b/c a) it's not really his information to give and b) he may not like her, but he's not necessarily malicious if it's not warranted. Harry doesn't tend to hurt people just to hurt them. I assume he figures that knowing that would hurt her more than help her. Or, maybe he wasn't thinking in that direction at the time.

There is very little in this series that doesn't have a specific reason for being there. The daughter in a coma has a place and, more than likely, she *will* come up again.

 

[Shingetsu]

Yeah, I figured it'd play a part in a future book. More Marcone and Helen story and such. It will be interesting when it does comes up though.

 

[Fahim]

he may not like her, but he's not necessarily malicious if it's not warranted. Harry doesn't tend to hurt people just to hurt them. I assume he figures that knowing that would hurt her more than help her. Or, maybe he wasn't thinking in that direction at the time.

I believe Marcone said something to this effect in "White Night" - that knowing her daughter was still alive would tear Helen apart or something and Harry agreed with Marcone's assessment, or so I recall

Given that there's 10 more books (at least) to go in the story arc, I think a lot of interesting things will transpire. It is possible that Murphy, whose got a job, will be drummed out of the force and then will have an opening for a new job and so take up one of the swords. It'll also be interesting to see which of the characters revealed so far have a royal lineage ...

I just got done catching up and my biggest issue from now on is going to be waiting for the next fix of Dresden

 

[Highlander II]

I believe Marcone said something to this effect in "White Night" - that knowing her daughter was still alive would tear Helen apart or something and Harry agreed with Marcone's assessment, or so I recall

He may have. I need to go back through the last few books one or two more times and pick up stuff.

See - that's the problem I start to have (it happens w/ TV series too) - I know the early stuff really well, b/c I read (watch) it like a zillion times, but the later stuff doesn't get as many read-throughs.

Heck - I haven't even finished listening to the audio of SmFv yet! Though - that's sort of annoying me b/c the tracks clip short and cut off words n' stuff.

 

[Connavar]

Man i read this thread by mistake.

Shame that Marcone is still alive. After wanting to kill Harry in Fool Moon, i had hoped a monster,demon has managed to kill him or something.

Shame Harry is old school wuss sometimes and dont have the guts to waste Marcone. Specially after seeing how much hate he showed against Marcone in Fool Moon.

I hope for a flashback sometime with Harry Dresden who was able to kill his master.

I mean he killed a dark wizard in the first book, he wasnt as dangerous as mob boss who control the underworld of a big city.

 

[Highlander II]

Harry's not a wuss b/c he won't kill Marcone. He's just weighed a good bit of the odds.

Taking out Marcone is a bad plan all around. First, Harry would have the standard justice system on him pretty quick if he did, thus Harry in jail. Second, Marcone is, as stated by Harry himself, a 'stabilizing force' on the organized crime of the Chicago area, removal of such a force would then destabilize that force and leave the whole set-up to its own devices, which could get pretty ugly. Third, this is the MOB - if Harry takes out Marcone, how many folks would then come after Harry to take him out? I'd guess quite a few. Forth, Harry kills Marcone, Harry becomes just like Marcone or other criminal elements and since he'd probably have to kill Marcone with magic, the White Council would be all over him and there wouldn't be a trial or tribunal or anything, just Morgan and his justice sword taking Harry's head. That would make the story end a little too quickly.

So, Harry keeping Marcone around isn't b/c he's a wuss, it's b/c the alternative is a whole lot worse.

 

[Connavar]

But he has killed several times without getting busted cause he made it be look like in self defense.


I mean he was a hexen werewolf and maimed,killed in the end Fool Moon. That wasnt in selfdefense. He didnt have to kill them but he did.

I thought it sounded like an excuse when he thought about Marcone being better than the alternative. Myself i doubt that :

1. It isnt likely the new boss will be as good for the underworld bizz(ei the damage to innocent people that HD apparently hates)

2. Just sounds like Butcher not wanting to get rid of him cause he is the sterotype Godfather type character. Romantic version of a mob boss. A Michael Corleone who smiles while he is kiliing you.



I agree Marcone is interesting sometimes but if he will be a hassle and have a role in 20 + books it will get too much clichè to handle.

I think Dresden and co are original and interesting characters just have seen too many characters like Marcone to not get tired of them in a long series.

 

[Fahim]

Actually, Marcone is turning out to be a much more complex character than he was portrayed in the first few books. You need to read the later novels, especially "Proven Guilty", "White Night", and "Small Favour" to understand that Marcone's not all evil.

He's not there to be simply the "evil overlord/crimelord" figure In fact, like most of Jim's characters, I have a feeling that there are lot more connections between Marcone and some of the others that will be revealed as the story arc progresses ... In fact, some of the stuff so far wouldn't have happened (and Harry have had aid when he needed it) if he'd simply killed Marcone

 

[Fahim]

Heck - I haven't even finished listening to the audio of SmFv yet! Though - that's sort of annoying me b/c the tracks clip short and cut off words n' stuff.

Take comfort in the fact that you at least have access to the audio version Here, I can't find the books at all and have to rely on the e-book versions for my Dresden fix. Good thing that Dresden is available in e-book format ...

 

[Highlander II]

When Harry killed the FBI-wolves, it *was* in self-defense. They had every intention of killing Harry b/c he was getting in their way. If Harry's actions had been anything other than self-defense, Murphy would have arrested him and Morgan would have swiftly appeared on the scene to exact Council justice.

About Marcone - like Fahim mentioned, keep reading, keep watching. In Jim's world of writing, there are no 'minor' characters. Everyone who shows up in the story and is important enough to get a name (or a decent description) is important. Some of the folks who may show up again might surprise you. (They did me. *g*)

 

[Fahim]

Some of the folks who may show up again might surprise you. (They did me. *g*)

OK, now I'm curious. Which ones surprised you, Highlander II? And we can take this discussion elsewhere if you don't want to spoil it for Connavar

 

[Highlander II]

OK, now I'm curious. Which ones surprised you, Highlander II? And we can take this discussion elsewhere if you don't want to spoil it for Connavar

This is the discussion topic for Small Favor, so, technically, spoilers for that book are allowed in this thread.

There's also the spoiler tag - which, sort of works to hide text a little.

But there was one character who showed up in either White Knight or SmFv who I hadn't actually expected to see. Partly, b/c I thought this character was in prison. The character in question works for Marcone.

Elaine surprised me with her initial appearance, but subsequent appearances, not so much.

I keep hoping for a couple other folks to pop their heads up again.

 

[Fahim]

But there was one character who showed up in either White Knight or SmFv who I hadn't actually expected to see. Partly, b/c I thought this character was in prison. The character in question works for Marcone.

Elaine surprised me with her initial appearance, but subsequent appearances, not so much.

I keep hoping for a couple other folks to pop their heads up again.

Are you talking about Ms. Demeter? If so, yeah, that one surprised me too. Especially since I hadn't even paid much attention to her when she first appeared. So now it makes me wonder what other apparently minor characters (like the apprentice who laughed at something Harry said during one of the wizard councils later turning out to be Ramirez) will turn out to have a lot more significance

Elaine was actually a bit of a give away since the book does telegraph well ahead of time that it's going to be her. I just didn't know how it could be possible since she was supposed to be dead. But she's another character that I won't mind seeing more of.

 

[Highlander II]

Yeah - that's her.

And Elaine being 'presumed dead', yet showing up, is very much why I'm pretty sure Justin's still around too. I don't think Harry killed him, or, if he did, someone brought him back. Harry's pretty sure Justin was dead, but I don't think he actually stopped to check, you know?

I have a theory about who I think is Justin, but I don't wanna say.

What I find absolutely fun to do - read the books in reverse order! That way, when you get back to GP or SF, you can go 'HEY! Jim Butcher, you sneaky devil, you put this BIG HONKING HINT in the early parts of the series and we totally didn't know it was a hint! Sneaky sneaky!' It's a lot of fun.

 

[Fahim]

And Elaine being 'presumed dead', yet showing up, is very much why I'm pretty sure Justin's still around too. I don't think Harry killed him, or, if he did, someone brought him back. Harry's pretty sure Justin was dead, but I don't think he actually stopped to check, you know?

Yeah, I'm still waiting for Justin to turn up Plus, they did have that Justin-clone thing on the TV series and so I keep thinking that perhaps that wasn't just an isolated TV-thing ...

What I find absolutely fun to do - read the books in reverse order! That way, when you get back to GP or SF, you can go 'HEY! Jim Butcher, you sneaky devil, you put this BIG HONKING HINT in the early parts of the series and we totally didn't know it was a hint! Sneaky sneaky!' It's a lot of fun.

LOL. I haven't had the time to re-read the books, not sure I ever will but even without doing that you hit spots in the later books where you suddenly realize, "Ah, that's why it was set up like this in the early books!" For instance, I had never paid much attention to the hexenwolves because that was the weakest story in the series, in my opinion of course. So I had totally forgotten the fact that they mentioned that somebody had given them the belts.

When I originally read the books, I thought that that someone might have been Justin. Then in one of the recent books, Harry brings up the same fact but ties that into everything else happening around him and I had never made the connection that way Of course, that still doesn't mean that it isn't Justin ...