Point of View characters: is GRRM losing the plot?

[Brian G Turner]

Having only read the first two volumes, I'm uneasy at the idea that Cersei and Jaime have their own Point of View scenes in future writings.

The reason being that it almost suggests GRRM is losing touch with his original vision of the story, and letting it distract and wander for its own sake.

If Jaime and Cersei were such important characters that they deserved their own POV, then why not deliver them in the first two volumes?

The argument that the first two volumes were too long doesn't seem to work - you can cut out most of Arya and Catelyn without affecting the story.

The whole thing just sets off warning bells that GRRM may be spending too much exploring the periphery of his story - and end up do a Jordan, with 10 books going nowhere.

OR have I missed something important, and that A Song of Fire and Ice should never have required constant Point of View usage in the first place, and that character POVs can change with ease and fluidity without compromising the story?

A discussion pointer.

 

[jaunty jackanapes]

Jaime's POV chapters in book3 are among my favorite in the book. I hope Martin writes as many books as he can as long as they're all as great as the first three. Cersei doesn't have any POV chapters until book4, and the direction those take is pretty interesting judging by the sample chapter I read at GRRM's site.

 

[hodor]

I agree. The fact that the novel has fluidity in its PoV chapters is so great. It leaves the reader always wondering or should I say the story unpredictable. This series has definitely been unpredictable from the get go. The first book was what I had expected for the most part but as I read on I learned that this author was doing for fantasy what no author I have read has done.

I remember reading As I Lay Dying by Hemmingway and absolutely love the PoV style.

 

[Lord of Winterfell]

I, Brian, you haven't yet read A Storm of Swords?! Man, you had better get your hands on it now. It will rock your world?

 

[shaggydog]

I agree with all you guys who say that I, Brian, should read a Storm of Swords, maybe you would change this esceptic view you have about aSoIaF, it is really brilliant!And if you cut most of the Arya and Catelyn chapters because the plot is not affected,then you would cut off a lot of background story, and you would miss a lot of character development, in what (we all agree) GRRM is an autentic genius.
for me, this PoV way of writing is new, and I find it really brilliant. As for Cersei and Jaime, i am very happy GRRM is developing them, how would you know what is going on in Kings landing if not?
I would like the mistery POV in AFFC being Varys

 

[Dead Riverdragon]

Has anyone read the latest sample chapter on GRRM's site? That seems to reveal the other new POV character, unless it's only a one-off, e.g. the prologue. Looks interesting though...

 

[jaunty jackanapes]

I bet that new POV will be more than one chapter. I can't wait to read about the "kingsmoot".

 

[Culhwch]

I think the Aeron chapter is going to be the prologue, and thus a only one-off POV chapter. Though this is only based on the fact that it is called 'The Prophet' and not 'Aeron' as you'd think it would be if it were going to be a recurring POV.

Adding new POV's isn't a sign of GRRM losing the plot - just the opposite, I would say. I think he uses them to expand the plot and the story by showing events and circumstances and characters from a different and fresh viewpoint. He has always said he is more interested in creating gray characters than black and white/good or evil stereotypes - and this is an effective way of doing it. A perfect example of this is Jaime's POV in ASoS where GRRM establishes sympathy and affection for a character fairly much loathed in the first two books. Plus you gotta remember he isn't just adding new POV's but replacing ones he has ended - Ned's in the first book, a couple in the third. On the whole I think he has complete control over the way his story is unfolding, and that it's going pretty much as he wants it to, not losing grip on it. Sure, they are long books, but they are so tightly plotted.

In short, read A Storm of Swords, mate.

 

[red_temple]

Yes - definitely read ASOS and I think you'll become convinced about the POVs. You'll be thankful for the insight provided by the "wanderings" that don't overtly contribute to the story. Looking back, I regard ACOK as more or less a "bridge" novel now. On its own it is definitely the weakest of the three novels so far (IMHO), but when you look at the big picture it is definitely necessary.

 

[hodor]

Yes - definitely read ASOS and I think you'll become convinced about the POVs. You'll be thankful for the insight provided by the "wanderings" that don't overtly contribute to the story. Looking back, I regard ACOK as more or less a "bridge" novel now. On its own it is definitely the weakest of the three novels so far (IMHO), but when you look at the big picture it is definitely necessary.

I agree. However, I pretty much see the whole series thus far as one big book. Not one book leaves in a definite ending point and it makes the reader feel an even greater desire to go out and continue with the next. I think it is going to take Martin a lot of pages to bring all the PoVs and subplots to a close. I look forward to ALOT of pages.

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

I think the PoV changes help to humanise all the characters, even the loathsome ones!
They've all done what they've done for certain reasons and you could even agree with some of them!!


*****SPOILERS******



Cersei's confession to Ned that all her children were incestous because the first time Robert went to bed with her he called her Lyanna! (man, I was grinning like a loon when I read that bit! It made me understand where Cersei was coming from a LOT better)

Jamie's confession to Brianne that he killed Aerys because he was going to torch Kings Landing makes him a hero not a villain!

Petyr falling in love with the girl he is destined never to have??

All of these are classic GRRM and that's why I love 'em!!

 

[hodor]

Aye, in other words you are saying that by having the PoV you understand the characters better. This I absolutely agree with. I must say it adds so much more depth to what is actually happening and more conflicting feelings. This is so genius in the way it has been done.

 

[Silk]

I've nearly finished ACoK (is that the right way to shorten? ) and I'm totally loving it, all the changes in POV just make me want to read more of it and faster!

My only problem is I just can't see where the story's going! After the first book I'd developed a prettey solid theory but now I just can't see it happenning, plus there are so many sub plots there isn't just going to be one conclusion. I'm so frustrated that I can't just down load the three books into my head and know everything thats happend so far, grrrrrrrrrrr

And as for cutting out most of the Arya bits - no way I actually think her POVs are my fave in comparrison to some of the others, a bit of light relief. all though I'm a bit shocked at how easily a 10 year old deals with death and murder