DISCUSSION - 30.06: The Doctor's Daughter (Trailer)

[Lenny]

People have expressed interest in discussing this episode, so why not?

I'll start with my patented SPOLIER alert:

*WARNING: SPOLIERS FROM EPISODE 6*

Quickly followed by some brief summaries:

The Doctor meets the most important woman of his life on the distant planet Messaline, in the middle of an endless war.

BBC - Press Office - Network TV Programme Information Week 20 Saturday 10 May 2008

The Doctor lands on the remote planet Messaline as an age-old war rages and the threat of genocide looms. When Martha is kidnapped by the Hath - militaristic humanoid monsters , the Doctor is distracted by "the most important woman in his life."

The Doctor's Daughter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And then I'll finish off with the trailer:

BBC - Doctor Who - Videos - Series Four

Oh, and just a nice little continuity point, shamelessly ripped from Wikipedia:

In "Fear Her" the Doctor mentioned to Rose "he was a father once". The only other member of the Doctor's family seen in the series has been Susan Foreman, the Doctor's granddaughter, whose last appearance was in "The Five Doctors".

Well? Discuss.

 

[Rane Longfox]

Oh, I can't wait

Do we think she was the woman with the red fingernails? Cos she didn't look entirely pro-doctor during the trailer...

 

[ctg]

So is the mother the K-9 woman, because she hints on having a (Doctor?) child in that episode. I guess the important question is that, if she is (Doctor's Daughter), then does she has inherited his abilities? Seen from the trailer, she definitely has dexterity and finesse beyond average human levels (something that no doctor has shown so far).

 

[Marauder77]

If the Daughter is the most important woman in the Doctors life... what about her mum?

Oh and my first reaction to the trailer was the quote from The Face of Boe: "You are not alone"... is she 1/2timelord? Or 1/1? Lots of wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey paradoxes in store?

 

[Rane Longfox]

I'm fairly sure the You Are Not Alone was purely about The Master - I'm sure it would have mentioned in the trailer if Captain Jack turned up in the next episode, after all.

Anyway, I was thinking that "daughter" in this might not be meant in the conventional sense - did anyone else notice how the camera kept swinging back to his hand-in-a-jar while the Tardis was going haywire? I reckon she has the Doctor's DNA from the hand (which, after all, could have been anywhere before Jack found it or when the Master had it), and hence be a sort of daughter...

In fact, if this is true, and the DNA was taken by the Master, then it would make sense for her to be the woman with the red fingernails

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Well wasn't the grandaughter was dumped on some planet way back when. It's not hard to imagine she's still going strong however given the number of new doctors she will have 'changed' herself. I thought the mother of the grandaughter was dead and anyway there is nothing to say the relationship wasn't via a son. Which will be the way they can extent the series after the twelfth transformation. You know as the doctor lies dying who should appear but the son who has secretly been hiding in the inner mazes of the tardis doing jigsaw puzzles and practicing his knitting (where did he get that scarf). I mean it had to be from a very close relative to make anyone cart that around for so long.

 

[PTeppic]

Doesn't the Doctor himself say something fairly clear like "She's my daughter"? (Time to check the video).

And, whilst it's politically incorrect, why don't I feel bad for thinking the Doctor's daughter is extremely aesthetically pleasing...?

 

[Raalix]

And, whilst it's politically incorrect, why don't I feel bad for thinking the Doctor's daughter is extremely aesthetically pleasing...?

I think most red blooded males will be in agreement with you there! Myself included.

 

[Perpetual Man]

Well my initial reaction was: What? Where? When? How?

But bringing up Susan is a brilliant point. She was always referred to and excepted as the Doctor's grandaughter (She stayed on Earth after the original Dalek Invasion after falling in love, in fact the Doctor left her behind because of this, so there could be great grandchildren etc....)

But obviously that would mean, if Susan was the Doctor's REAL daughter not adopted or anything there must be a parent around.

Stretching my memory as much as I can (!) There was a short story published in the Radio Times when it celebrated the show 20th or 25th Anniversary that explained the relationship between Susan and the Doctor.

On top of this I'm sure there are a few oblique mentions to his family in the Hartnell years.

The now hard to get last Virgin novel LUNGBARROW has quite a few mentions about the Doctor's genesis, but is not considered cannon.

I guess it depends how far back the writing team is going - because my initial thought before Susan was mentioned here was that it was something to do with the hand.

 

[Vladd67]

Well wasn't the grandaughter was dumped on some planet way back when.

She wasn't 'dumped' on some planet. In the 1964 story The Darlek Invasion of Earth Susan fell in love with David Campbell a 22nd century freedom fighter but felt she had to stay and look after her Grandfather, realising Susan is now a grown woman who deserves a life of her own The Doctor locks her out of the Tardis and after a tearful goodbye leaves her behind.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

She wasn't 'dumped' on some planet. In the 1964 story The Darlek Invasion of Earth Susan fell in love with David Campbell a 22nd century freedom fighter but felt she had to stay and look after her Grandfather, realising Susan is now a grown woman who deserves a life of her own The Doctor locks her out of the Tardis and after a tearful goodbye leaves her behind.

Well! Sounds like the actions of the heartless emotional black hole he is. And if that isn't dumping then what is. I think he should keep his interfering self promoting fingers out of other planets lives and get himself back to where Galifri or wherever it was called was and stew in his own juice. Who's to say the Earth wouldn't have been better under the rule of those nice daleks. And before you start they wouldn't have come here without his meddling and lets not forget he's had more than one chance to 'do away with them forever'. And besides before long we'll be looking like daleks ourselves with all this genetic modification going on. Maybe Earth is their home planet and he just changed the name to con the teacher and the copper into helping him. He's he's just been misleading us all this time.

It's nice to be different.

Tein slowly closes his lid on his pet can of worms and slinks off into the shadows.

 

[Raalix]

I've learned a few interesting things about Susan.

She was never originally intended to be the Doctor's granddaughter. The producers had issues with an old man and a teenage girl travelling together so they incorporated the family connection. This however, caused even more controversy because some viewers didn't like the fact that the Doctor at some point had been sexually active!

You can't win!

 

[SpaceShip]

This however, caused even more controversy because some viewers didn't like the fact that the Doctor at some point had been sexually active!

Ah - but is it conceivable that they conceive the same way?

And - does that make her a Time Lord? Or should I say Time Lady? In which case would that make him NOT the last of the Time Lords?

 

[thaddeus6th]

I think I read on wikipedia (so not exactly guaranteed to be true) that Timelords are infertile, and that they grow (or grew, post-Time War) new people through a kind of genetic loom.

 

[chopper]

And, whilst it's politically incorrect, why don't I feel bad for thinking the Doctor's daughter is extremely aesthetically pleasing...?

where's the harm in saying that? after all, many people would rub their thighs over David Tennant.....
i for one will be watching closely next week. ah, aesthetic pleasure....

 

[Rane Longfox]

I think I read on wikipedia (so not exactly guaranteed to be true) that Timelords are infertile, and that they grow (or grew, post-Time War) new people through a kind of genetic loom.

Thats seems like an extremely unlikely way to evolve...

 

[thaddeus6th]

Yes, it wasn't their initial method of reproduction, they were all rendered infertile and had to invent a new way to propagate.

AFter some searching, found this:
" In later New Adventures we are introduced to the concept of the genetic Looms, from which new Time Lords were created."

from Rassilon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm sure there was something else about Omega and the Other, but can't seem to find it.


Think this is it:
"When the Pythia was overthrown, she laid a final curse on Gallifrey that made the population sterile. To ensure the continuation of their race, Rassilon created the Looms, machines that would "weave" new Gallifreyans out of extant genetic material."

From Other (Doctor Who) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Perpetual Man]

Think this is it:"When the Pythia was overthrown, she laid a final curse on Gallifrey that made the population sterile. To ensure the continuation of their race, Rassilon created the Looms, machines that would "weave" new Gallifreyans out of extant genetic material."

From Other (Doctor Who) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes this is what I remember from the Virgin novel Lungbarrow, which actually describes the weaving of the Doctor... or perhaps if I remember more rightly (it's a long time ago since I read the book and it's harder and harder to get hold of a copy - I was dumb enough to give mine away) it suggests that there was something more special about the Doctor's weaving - almost as though his genetic pattern was not new, that a living being became part of the weave altering the template...

Just discovered there is an online version of the novel at:

BBC - Doctor Who - Classic Series Ebooks - The Sands of Time

 

[ctg]

Out of all the possibilities with the infinite space, parallel universes and the time-machine. controlled by almost immortal time-lord, there must be a multiple ways for nature to take a course. Face of Bo made a reference to the Master, so why not a daughter? Who knows where the Doctor goes on his 'lonely' trips through the space and time? There are so many places where to land Tardis, and get on with the urges.

However, as you have said that the race member were made by a machine, then doesn't that take out the possibility of one having a daughter?

 

[thaddeus6th]

Not sure whether this warrants spoiler warnings, given what I've already put and that it's canon status is dubious at best, but the following may contain spoilers for the Doctor's identity:




When Pythia, the cult priestess who used to rule Gallifrey, was overthrown she cursed the Time Lords so they became infertile. A triumvirate (Rassilon, a la the Five Doctors, Omega and the Other (name lost to time)) overthrew her. Omega was thought to be killed in creating the black hole that is the source of Timelord power, and Rassilon became a dictator. The Other knew his days were numbered and threw himself into a genetic loom. Eventually, it is surmised, his genetic parts were reweaved into the Doctor, and the Other's daughter, Susan, recognised him as 'grandfather'.

Simple.

Ahem.