Question about posting complete short stories

[Ground Cinnamon]

In the Guidelines for posting it says it is not a good idea to publish complete works because publishers frown on this. I've made a secret group on Facebook (which means only people I invite to the group can see what is posted there) to post my complete but unpublished short story for friends to critique. My main reason was that I have an unatural fear of plagiarism (why someone would plagiarize my work, I don't know, but I'm still fearful of it).

My question is, was that a good move and are my fears justified?

 

[The Ace]

The problem is that, by their very nature, publishers need exclusive access to the complete work. Not only have you exposed yourself to plagiarism, you've effectively buried your chances of ever having this work published.

In short, this was a big mistake, the trick is not to repeat it.

 

[Commonmind]

The Ace is correct. I would also add that the traditional method of allowing a friend or family member to read the physical manuscript is the preferred method for receiving critiques of your work. Any friends you've found through Facebook, or through the web in general, are never to be trusted with personal information, including materials you may one day use for monetary gain or personal recognition. (We all would like to think we have the insight to choose the right friends, but even the smartest, most insightful people get duped by nefarious folks on a daily basis.)

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

The problem is that, by their very nature, publishers need exclusive access to the complete work. Not only have you exposed yourself to plagiarism, you've effectively buried your chances of ever having this work published.

In short, this was a big mistake, the trick is not to repeat it.

I would add that the fact you don't see a problem dosen't mean a present or future publisher would see it the same as you. If I was a publisher who discovered the person I was interested in thought nothing of giving free copies of their work to strangers I might think twice about investing time and effort in the project.

 

[BookStop]

I'm not real sure how places like Facebook work, but if it is really secure and you only invite people you really know personally, I don't see the problem. Unless, of course, one of your friends has a secret urge to be enough like you to take your work.

If you are still worried, you can always email your stories to friends on a one by one basis. I've done that before with a couple of people here on Chrons I've felt were reliable.

 

[Ground Cinnamon]

Thanks everyone for your input, especially BookStop.
I guess I was not clear on the nature of face book.

1. The fact is that the only people I am friends with on face book are real life friends, people I trust, I've drank with, prayed with, moved furniture with, etc.
2. The secret group is only accesable to my chosen few, and I don't think they want to be like me too much.

I really do get the concept of a publisher needed full access to an unpublished work. But I'm not really publishing my work to just anyone. I'm placing my story on a secure site only my chosen few can access.

So... unless there is more to be said on this topic, I guess my answer is that it isn't a bad thing as long as my story is on a secure site and not widely accesable. E-mailing is probably a more secure method... I just didn't want to clog up a bunch of e-mail addresses.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

I'm not real sure how places like Facebook work, but if it is really secure and you only invite people you really know personally, I don't see the problem. Unless, of course, one of your friends has a secret urge to be enough like you to take your work.

If you are still worried, you can always email your stories to friends on a one by one basis. I've done that before with a couple of people here on Chrons I've felt were reliable.

Yes I'm sure your right.
Wait a minute though, suppose JKR had done it. How long do you think the security would hold up. $50000 for one page in a recent aution might tip the ballance. Remember even these posts can be intercepted at any time to any where. Face book must be rife with holes.

Ground Cinamon : sorry to be negative about the nature of relationships however, if people that have had children together, bought houses, taken vows together, have promised to die for each other can turn sour I'm afraid moving furniture is a fair way down the list and is certainly not a garantee of integrity.

I affraid email is as good as placing a full page add in the times as far as security is concerned.

 

[Malloriel]

I've always been concerned about putting my own works on the internet as well. Of course I want the feedback and opinions, the more widely varied the opinions the better the story can become (avoiding the trap of trying to please everyone being key, of course), but shifty people exist. As it is there's still that little controversy over whether JKR was the originator of the Harry Potter idea or if she DID take it from someone else and beat them to the publisher (now I'm not trying to start anything here with that statement, I'm just remarking that the opinion exists), and I really don't think she made a habit of showing her excerpts to anyone online, so anything you DO do online is always subject to interception, reinterpretation and any number of other unpleasant things.

My opinion would be to stick with showing physical copies, as inconvenient as that can be at times, just because it gives the greatest amount of security. And even when showing bits and pieces on forums like this, give enough story to make an excerpt relevant, but not enough to allow people to hijack the story.

I know you want it to be easy and convenient and for us to tell you it's all okay, they're just friends and you can trust them. We'd all like for it to be that easy, but we can't say it just to allay your fears when there are real dangers out there that shouldn't be ignored for the sake of convenience or the whole-hearted (and likely well based) belief that the people you've chosen are the right ones. In all likelihood your friends are perfectly wonderful and as trustworthy as you'd be yourself, but even moderate hackers with a goal can get a hold of these things and there goes your story, out the window.

We can't say it's safe and happy and pretty out there in the wide net, but we can give you advice and tools to protect yourself. It's up to you to accept them or not, but if you're displaying concern over it, enough to ask opinions from those who might know better, at least listen to what they give back.

 

[Precise Calibre]

I agree with Malloriel...


Only show large parts of work for critique to people you can reach with a knife...

 

[Susan Boulton]

Never say never;

The fee paying Sff online writing workshop has a long tradition of writers getting short stories and novels that have been workshopped on the onlineforum, published. (And I am talking about whole short stories and novels) Take a look at the hall of fame link at the bottom of the page.

I read work by Elizabeth Bear to name just one during her time on the workshop.

Online Writing Workshop for SF, Fantasy & Horror: Become a Better Writer!

 

[SeanHannifin]

Like online workshops, if the writing is kept private and only accessible with login names and passwords, they're rarely considered "published" ... there are countless stories that have been professionally published that have first been critiqued online and remain available to those with passwords.

You're fine.

Even if Facebook was really insecure and everyone could view your writing, if you deleted it before you sent it to publishers you'd probably still be fine. I don't think publishers would look through internet archives to make sure your stuff was never online. Unless your writing became extremely popular, in which case, why bother trying to get it republished?

 

[Ground Cinnamon]

Thank you all for the continued input!
My unfortunate (or impatient) personal story is that after a month of 15 friends having access to my short story online, none of them have had the time to read even half of it (though it is only 6 pages) nor write me a review. Good friends, just very busy. So for the simple reason that a hard copy is always there staring you in the face, and is a lot easier to pick up than a web site, I might simply give out hard copies from now on for that reason alone!

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Have you checked the Readers Digest yet? ) only joking)

 

[Pyan]

After 5 more posts in the "serious" threads, GC, you can send bits of the story to people here by PM, but only if you feel you can trust them, and only if they are happy to look at it for you.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Pyan: what counts as "a serious thread"?

I''m curious - Mainly because I'm worried I probably wouldn't qualify! - Ever

 

[Pyan]

You're way over, Tein.

Basically, there's a widget in the forum software that prevents certain things before 15 posts - the ability to post links, is one, as is PMing. This is to put a dent in the spambots that attack the site.

But to make sure that the forum stays SF/F based, and doesn't turn into just another chat-site, basically only posts in the SF/F section count toward your post-count. Posts in the General section, including the Lounge, Playrooms, etc. don't count - which is why some people that spend most of their time there have relatively low counts.