16th 17th Language

[JohannaWalker]

does anyone have any words that someone like shakespeare would use in place of newer ones.
Such as:
Thou art
Upon
thats all i got and im writin an entire story form the time zone of the 1500s and 1600s...HELP!

 

[iansales]

Er, you could try reading Shakespeare...

 

[Mattastic]

Apart from the poetic phrases, the kind of English Shakespeare wrote in, Early Modern English, is not actually particularly hard to grasp the fundamentals of. However, I will say that if you don't fully understand the language, don't use it! It's so utterly infuriating to see people use nonsensical words and phrases like "ye pubbe" or a horrendous overuse of the word "thou". No-one will take your story less seriously if you have Tudor characters speaking in modern English, any less than they would if you wrote a story set in Spain in English -- but they will take it less seriously if you mangle the language of the day.

However, if you do want to learn the basics to try and give the right flavour, I suggest you start by reading the Wikipedia article (Early Modern English) on the subject. Also bear in mind that Shakespeare himself had an enormous impact on the development of the English language, introducing a huge number of words.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

However, I will say that if you don't fully understand the language, don't use it! It's so utterly infuriating to see people use nonsensical words and phrases like "ye pubbe" or a horrendous overuse of the word "thou".

I agree.

However, if you are really keen on doing this, Johanna, there is a very useful book, A Shakespearian Grammar, by E. A. Abbott. My copy is an old Dover edition, from 1966, but the book has been through numerous reprints since it was first published in 1870, and I'm sure you could find it online.

 

[Urlik]

Er, you could try reading Shakespeare...

that is a bit like learning Uk English of the 1970's from watching Carry On films.
yes the language is English in use at that time, but it is riddled with inuendo and ribald jokes and the overuse of words that, if used in a serious piece, would make it harder for the reader to take seriously.

 

[Lith]

If you're going to write an entire book you'll need a good working knowledge of it, and the best way to get it is to read a lot of it. An good annotated Shakespeare can help point out the jokes. The King James Bible's got a lot of it too, and is IMO a little easier to read than Shakespeare. There's also the Faerie Queene, but it's harder than both.

I've also found it necessary to read Shakespeare's plays multiple times over in quick succession to really begin to understand it. And you might start with Hamlet (that's my favorite). The language gets easier with practice.

Just don't start talking in iambic pentameter. That wasn't normal then, either.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

I ask myself would anybody read it. I certainly wouldn't.

I doubt anyone who isn't conversant with the style would take the trouble either.

Remember if you have to spend twelve months reading up on how to write the stuff a reader is going to be in the same position. I'm not aware of a huge groundswelling for old english writing so I assume this is a personal odyssey you've set yourself.

Teach yourself Welsh instead and then write the book. There will be a larger market. The Welsh will thank you (you could probably get a grant) and you will have something useful at the end.

Alternatively just throw in a couple of thous and wilts every now and then to give the impression thou know'st what thou art about (who's going to know otherwise after all) and then get into the meaty plots of the book. If later some accademic comes along to critisise your efforts no one will be bothered as you can always say

'It wasn't meant to be an academic work'

Whereas if you spend the next three years perfecting your 15th century style only to be ridiculed anyway since you skipped the ten year course then what was it all about.

Try reading Huck Fin (if you haven't already), Can you honestly say you enjoyed pratting about with all that gibberish.

Remember, in the short time we all have left do you really have enough to start projects like this.

Sorry if this comes across as slightly negative.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Sometimes, TEIN, it's hard to tell where you stop (or start) being serious.

But Supatalka isn't proposing to write the whole book in Early Modern English, just sprinkle in a few words for flavor. And a great many readers most certainly would notice if that was done wrong.

As for the question of whether anyone would read a book written entirely in 16th or 17th century -- I refer you to the classic works by E. R. Eddison, which people have been reading and enjoying for years. The Worm Ouroboros, has recently been reissued.

But of course Eddison didn't just read a book or two on the English of the period and then write his. He had obviously internalized it to the point where it came out naturally. It's marvelous reading.

 

[chrispenycate]

In sooth, I am unmanned ; for shouldst thou not
In form and function folloe in the wake
Of those who formed our speech’s function, then
In what canst thou be held as accurate?
Say, friend, that I may yet create a fog
An illusion of epochs past, ere we
Equivocated to a rigid law
Defining, and thus limiting our speech
To form prosaic, all the magic still’d
Thy whirling dreams of verb fantastic kill’d.