a pretty bad fantasy book

Joseph Swope

Author of Need for Magic
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
6
Hi,
I just finished reading a pretty bad book. I guess I'd like to warn others away so they do not spend money on what I found to be a poor use of my limited funds and time.

I'm still kind of new on this forum, so I'm hesitant to bash a book. So, I will not mention the title unless others ask me specifically.

Joe Swope.
 
From one Marylander to another, a belated welcome to The Chrons, Joe (if this is a repeat, so be it! ;) ).

The Chrons is certainly about opinions, and particularly well-stated opinions are quite respected here. I don't want to speak for them, as I'm still somewhat of a newbie myself, but I think the Moderators might suggest that you do a review of the book if you feel strongly about it. Empirical, thoroughly-considered reviews are DEFINITELY respected here, at least in my experience.

That having been said, speak your mind. As long as the bashing errs on the objective side, it contributes to the overall take on the book, good, bad or indifferent.

Welcome again!
 
Nought wrong with saying what you don't like about a book, as far as I can see...perhaps it might be useful to also mention books you do like, or things about books you do like, so readers can get some idea of how your tastes might fit with theirs, or not. Personally I find it useful to read opinions about a book, good or bad, particularly those that say why. Helps with the future purchases. ;)
 
Hi,
I just finished reading a pretty bad book. I guess I'd like to warn others away so they do not spend money on what I found to be a poor use of my limited funds and time.

if your funds are limited, make use of your local public library.

as for bashing a book, give it an honest critique and start a discussion about the author and their work.
you never know, someone else may offer an insight into it that even changes your view of it
 
There's a thread about this, I'm sure. As long as you can say why you disliked it, your opinion is as valid as anyone else's.
 
Like Grimward, I too am somewhat a newbie. But I really want to know what you have to say about a book, so that I might be spared your pain. As the others have said, try to make it objective and reasonable. For instance:

1. Poor writing;
2. Poor editing (lots of typos, strange tangents that make no sense, poor publishing value);
3. cliched plot;
4. hackneyed or paper-thin characterization;
5. pretentious writing;
6. gratuitous sex or violence (if it does not add to the communication of the story, it is gratuitous and is just there for shock value);
7. being preachy or pontificating. This sort of thing can be really subjective.

And those are just for starters. Also, be sure to tell us of any things about the book that you did like. Very few books are ALL bad (I am trying so hard not to say any name in particular! Really, really hard.).
 
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Welcome!!!!

So what is the book and what about it didn't you like?
 
Welcome and yes ... I too am curious about this book. It's fine to say you don't care for a book, go ahead and give it an honest critique. That's be fine and might just start up and interesting discussion.

Just saying that you hate a book without any reason whatsoever is a bit of a thread killer.
 
So,did we ever find out what monstrosity he had in mind?I know this is kind o a bump,but I thought he PMed someone with it at least.
 
6. gratuitous sex or violence (if it does not add to the communication of the story, it is gratuitous and is just there for shock value)

I strongly disagree with this ever being a bad thing! :)

I have noticed, when reading reviews on amazon, that it seems a lot of fantasy readers are very opposed to sex in their books, which I found odd.
 
I strongly disagree with this ever being a bad thing! :)

I have noticed, when reading reviews on amazon, that it seems a lot of fantasy readers are very opposed to sex in their books, which I found odd.


Traditionally, Fantasy is about the battle of good and evil and likes to morally take the high ground to seperate the good from the bad. I think that is why people are taken aback when the hero is sexually active or overly violent. I think that the line between the two has changed along with the format for most fantasy story lines. George Martin has all of the above in his books and I have never heard anyone complain about it.(although I am sure there are those that would). I think that is because the line between which characters are tradionally good or bad is hazy. In the start you think of Jaime and Tyrion as "bad" but soon both are fan favorites.
 
Traditionally, Fantasy is about the battle of good and evil and likes to morally take the high ground to seperate the good from the bad. I think that is why people are taken aback when the hero is sexually active or overly violent. I think that the line between the two has changed along with the format for most fantasy story lines. George Martin has all of the above in his books and I have never heard anyone complain about it.(although I am sure there are those that would). I think that is because the line between which characters are tradionally good or bad is hazy. In the start you think of Jaime and Tyrion as "bad" but soon both are fan favorites.

I never thought Tyrion was bad, but maybe that says something about me ;) But it was actually Martin I was referring to... a lot of the negative reviews on it come from people complaining about the sex in the books. I was kind of surprised.
 
Traditionally, Fantasy is about the battle of good and evil and likes to morally take the high ground to seperate the good from the bad.

Err... I don't know where you got that impression, but it is hardly accurate. Fantasy traditionally has had that as one small branch, but it certainly hasn't been true of the whole, or even the majority, even with "epic" fantasy fiction.

I think that is why people are taken aback when the hero is sexually active or overly violent.

Again, I suppose this depends on what you mean by "overly violent" -- I can think of quite a few heroes of fantasy (classic and otherwise) who were quite violent, often maliciously so; and the vast majority had a fairly strong libido, going back at least as far as Howard's Conan. (True, there were no graphic descriptions of sex, but that is true of most literature until well after the Modernist revolution, and sexuality was a very strong component of those stories, and certainly of the Cimmerian's character; as opposed to, say, Kull.)

And on the subject of violence -- Elric was not only violent at times, but perverse, malicious, and cruel; outright vicious on occasion. Erekosë destroys the human race. Jerry Cornelius is both strongly sexual and perversely (and arbitrarily) violent on occasion. Airar Alvarson (Pratt's The Well of the Unicorn) casts a spell on someone he is enamored of and basically rapes her by such means. And so on....

All of this predates Martin & Co. by some years (or decades)....
 
I understand where SoulSInging is coming from. I have recommended the original Thomas Covenant Series to people and warned them about the rape scene. They still come back to me with, "I couldn't get past that scene"

On the other side of the coin there is the subgenre of Fantasy that has Romance/Sexuality as the central tenant of story. i.e. the new "FangBanger" vampire books, Kushiel series by Jacqueline Carey, and the Sharon Green Terrilian Sequence from the early 80's.

As always each person has their own expectation of what a "good" story should contain. That is why I try to get a sense of what the reader has enojoyed in the past plus I ask, "Do you object to xyz?" before I make recommendations.

I see we have hijacked the link :)
Please let us know your opinion about the bad fantasy book. It helps to avoid the bad ones when they go for $8-9 a pop.
 
Err... I don't know where you got that impression, but it is hardly accurate. Fantasy traditionally has had that as one small branch, but it certainly hasn't been true of the whole, or even the majority, even with "epic" fantasy fiction.

Okay, well "Fantasy" is a pretty broad term. If you search Fantasy on amazon you can get them comic book Bone, Charlette Harris, a lot of Vampire books...yadayadayda. I suppose I was refering to the traditional "Epic" Fantasy that Tolkein made famous. I, personally, am not a fan of books with descriptive sex scenes but I would never not read a Martin book because they involve sex, or involve it in a review. Typically this style of fantasty is always good vs. evil, the old God vs Satan with different names. It doesnt seem to be as common a theme as it was in the eighties and early nineties.
 
Please let us know your opinion about the bad fantasy book. It helps to avoid the bad ones when they go for $8-9 a pop.

I'd settle for knowing what it's called, let alone opinions on it.:rolleyes:
 
Err... I don't know where you got that impression, but it is hardly accurate. Fantasy traditionally has had that as one small branch, but it certainly hasn't been true of the whole, or even the majority, even with "epic" fantasy fiction.

Okay, well "Fantasy" is a pretty broad term. If you search Fantasy on amazon you can get them comic book Bone, Charlette Harris, a lot of Vampire books...yadayadayda. I suppose I was refering to the traditional "Epic" Fantasy that Tolkein made famous. I, personally, am not a fan of books with descriptive sex scenes but I would never not read a Martin book because they involve sex, or involve it in a review. Typically this style of fantasty is always good vs. evil, the old God vs Satan with different names. It doesnt seem to be as common a theme as it was in the eighties and early nineties.

Again, I'd object to the use of the word "traditional" here, even though it does have some accuracy, as Tolkien's work certainly utilized many traditional sources. But even as far as "epic" fantasy is concerned, there were several who preceded Tolkien, including E. R. Eddison, William Morris, etc. I do agree that many who followed Tolkien's lead also had some of the characteristics you mentioned in your earlier post, but as I noted in my response, even in epic fantasy of a more traditional sort, this was by no means the main sort of tale told until after the growth of Tolkien's popularity.

However, specific details aside, the point that many readers of imaginative fiction (and this includes both fantasy and sf) object to violence or (especially) sex in their reading has long been noted. Colin Greenland devotes a chapter to this reaction toward the New Wave's reaction against the rather Victorian approach of much sff up to that point in his book The Entropy Exhibition. It is, appropriately, titled "Love Among the Mannequins", and it examines the entire issue rather well.

My own take is that my only objection to such material is when it is gratuitous; when it serves no genuine narrative purpose but is simply there to titillate in a rather adolescent way. On the other hand, when it does serve such a purpose, either as genuinely useful insight into character, to develop a point in the plot, or as metaphor (as in Moorcock's The Brothel in Rosenstrasse or Nicholson Baker's Vox, for example, where it serves on all three levels), then I have no objection to it, no matter how explicit it may be. The first is simply bad writing, the second may be using what some still consider to be controversial material or approaches to address a point, but is nonetheless good writing....

As for finding out the title of the novel mentioned in the opening post... as that was Joseph's most recent post, and it took place about 6 months ago, I rather doubt we're going to have an answer to that one anytime soon....
 

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