Dividing up the allegorical and real

GrownUp

GrownUp

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You know how Terry Pratchett's books are allegories? I think that Pratchett's
characters can be split into two categories. People who would fit into the real
world and people who are immersed in the Discworld setup.

Vetinari, for example. He's so uncannily like Queen Elizabeth the First that
I bet if you switched them quick no-one would ever know the difference.

But Granny Weatherwax is a Discworld construct. She could never exist here
where magic has never been real. The parallel of old wise woman is there, but
she couldn't just be a herbs & berries type of healer, could she?
 
Oh, I disagree. Even without magic, I've met many Granny Weatherwaxes in my lifetime. Especially since her basic philosophy seems to be that magic isn't needed as long as you have smarts, cleverness, knowledge and a basic understanding of people.
 
You mean headology ? Yep, my own grandmother was like this.
otherwise I have yet to meet a Nobby Nobbs IRL.
 
Leto said:
You mean headology ? Yep, my own grandmother was like this.
otherwise I have yet to meet a Nobby Nobbs IRL.
Click to expand...

Come to London. There are like six of them down the pub and another three at the police station.
 
I still don't know about Granny Weatherwax. I reckon the wizards at the University could swap magic for Philosophy, Theology, The Classics, as long as they still had offices and power and could be cantankerous, but not her, I reckon. The sort of advanced logic she uses is only part of her. I don't reckon she could sit in her house and use her empathy to imagine what other people and things are feeling in a real world. Magic and - the exchange - are integral to her.
In fact, that is her great problem. Being an ordinary person as well having this real great power and ability. If she was an ordinary wise woman as you would get here she would be better off. Less conflicted, I reckon.
 
GrownUp said:
Vetinari, for example. He's so uncannily like Queen Elizabeth the First that
I bet if you switched them quick no-one would ever know the difference.
Click to expand...

Vetinari the Virgin (allegedly anyway) Queen? I think someone might notice :)

Anorak: Vetinari was inspired by Renaissance Italy, the Medici family particualrly (look at the names) but I think most of the ruling familes at the time were of a similar ilk. I'm sure TP has said this himself but it is quite a well known comparison anyway.
 
Estelthea you're a mine of information.
I suppose my mind flies to Queen Liz I because she is one of the characters I know better.

What country, I mean, is there a country which corresponds to Krull?
 
GrownUp said:
Estelthea you're a mine of information.
I suppose my mind flies to Queen Liz I because she is one of the characters I know better.

What country, I mean, is there a country which corresponds to Krull?
Click to expand...
Possibly America? There isn't one in the Discworld otherwise, and they did have that programme to ascertain the sex of the Great A'Tuin.
 
I'm not sure there is a country in our world that coresponds to Krull but it might be based on a place in another book since most of the early Discworld novels tended to parody fantasy and SF more frequently than this world.

A quick search around the internet turned up this http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085811/ which may or may not be relevant (The Colour of Magic was first published in the same year). Anyone seen it who can elaborate?
 
Oh no. Krull, although a classic, with a spider-woman and a cyclops that gets all mashed up in some sliding doors (why has that never happened in Star Trek?) doesn't bear any obvious resemblence to Krull of the Discworld. Perhaps Krull is backwards for something. Llurk? Or an anagram for something. Lurlk? Kurll?
 
Possibly not Weatherwax, but Nanny Ogg could be very real - I've known a few Nanny Oggs.
Mort is my brother - at least he was when he first met Death and 'couldn't find his arse with both hands'. (And walked like he had more than one pair of knees!)
Umm, apart from the metaphysical abilities, Susan Sto Helit is very real too - her unnerving attention to detail and the scary level of no-nonsense is someone we all knew.
 
GrownUp said:
Oh no. Krull, although a classic, with a spider-woman and a cyclops that gets all mashed up in some sliding doors (why has that never happened in Star Trek?) doesn't bear any obvious resemblence to Krull of the Discworld. Perhaps Krull is backwards for something. Llurk? Or an anagram for something. Lurlk? Kurll?
Click to expand...

Sounds like my kind of film!
 
Space Monkey said:
Possibly not Weatherwax, but Nanny Ogg could be very real - I've known a few Nanny Oggs.
Mort is my brother - at least he was when he first met Death and 'couldn't find his arse with both hands'. (And walked like he had more than one pair of knees!)
Umm, apart from the metaphysical abilities, Susan Sto Helit is very real too - her unnerving attention to detail and the scary level of no-nonsense is someone we all knew.
Click to expand...

Yep, I agree with you. Susan's mum, wife of Mort, also, nice and real. Even her brief psycho-ness in, um, The Light Fantastic, was it? ...was the sort of psycho-ishness you get in scary films and suchlike here.

And Sybil Vimes is recognisable in this world too. She could live in the New Forest somewhere.

What about Angua? Very much of what she says and does is truly understandable, she's written so well, but does that sympathetic writing make it easy to forget how much of her human character is influenced by her werewolf mentality? Or is she being written as a sympathetic protaganist who happens to be a wolf sometimes, everyone has their peculiarities? So in that case in this world she might be the same except she'd be a weekend morris dancer or something.
 
GrownUp said:
I still don't know about Granny Weatherwax. I reckon the wizards at the University could swap magic for Philosophy, Theology, The Classics, as long as they still had offices and power and could be cantankerous, but not her, I reckon. The sort of advanced logic she uses is only part of her. I don't reckon she could sit in her house and use her empathy to imagine what other people and things are feeling in a real world. Magic and - the exchange - are integral to her.
In fact, that is her great problem. Being an ordinary person as well having this real great power and ability. If she was an ordinary wise woman as you would get here she would be better off. Less conflicted, I reckon.
Click to expand...
But Granny Weatherwax hardly ever uses magic anyway. She's a psychologist and a chiropractor. I think she'd be well able to fit into our world. She might miss Borrowing, but i think she'd still be just like the granny we know and love.
 
I think most of the characters in Pratchett books works so well because we easily recognise them as the genuine people types which are all around us. Even the ones who couldn't exist in this world (Reg Shoe the zombie, frinstance) have characteristics which we can see in real people all the time (bolshy activism for a particular cause in Reg's case).
Pratchett has the happy knack of usually making his characters into convincing personalities, even if they are zombies, trolls, vampires and such like which don't exist in the real world.
 
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