No Koontz?

[KESpires]

I just noticed. There is no Dean Koontz subforum? Why?

 

[biodroid]

I like Koontz before he wrote Fear Nothing and then all his books after that just went downhill from there. I must say some of the scariest and most intriguing novels I read were by him like Lightning, Phantoms and Watchers. I just lost interest in him because he became very formulaic, guy hooks up with girl they run for their lives from unspeakable evil then through some chance win blah blah. I guess maybe he isn't as good a writer as say Stephen King who can really twist things up and make you feel like you are being taken on a ride with him.

 

[Lioness]

I just noticed. There is no Dean Koontz subforum? Why?

Possibly, and I'm not sure about this, because there has to be 5 active threads about his work in the General Book Discussion before a subforum is created.

 

[KESpires]

Well, he definitely fits into the requisite categories. He's written science fiction, fantasy, horror, gothic romance, and children books about robot santa clauses.

 

[tangaloomababe]

I agree with biorod , I liked some of his earlier stuff with Lightening being a favorite and later he wrote The Taking but in between the two there was some pretty weird stuff. He had the potential to be a brilliant writer but I think he fell of the track some where . I really lost interest in picking up any of his new stuff.

 

[j d worthington]

Well, he definitely fits into the requisite categories. He's written science fiction, fantasy, horror, gothic romance, and children books about robot santa clauses.

Yes, Koontz fits into the proper categories but, as Lioness noted, unless there are at least five active discussion threads about him, he doesn't earn a subforum. There are many excellent and/or popular writers who haven't yet earned such here: Edgar Rice Burroughs, Joanna Russ, Harlan Ellison, Clark Ashton Smith, etc., all have their following (often quite vocal), but none have enough sustained discussion to merit a special subcategory for the particular writer. Even Isaac Asimov and Larry Niven didn't get one until fairly recently (about a year or so ago, as I recall)....

So start some threads, get some discussions going, and see what happens. If enough people are interested in talking about Koontz and his work, then... who knows?

 

[biodroid]

Well, he definitely fits into the requisite categories. He's written science fiction, fantasy, horror, gothic romance, and children books about robot santa clauses.

What fantasy has he written?

 

[KESpires]

Well, most of his stuff except for Lightning and a few others are fantasy if you get technical. I remember one book, Dragon Eye or something like it, where the villain can stop time and manipulate other things that there is no scientific explanation for.

In From the Corner of His Eye the protagonist, Bartholomew, can go into and out of other dimensions with no explanation. The second protagonist can "paint holes" that people or things fall into to vanish without a trace.

In By the Light of the Moon the protagonists develop super powers and form a super hero group under the guidance of a radio host that airs stories of a Tales from the Crypt style.

All the Odd books are fantasies. Guy sees dead people. Guy sees squiggly black things that gather round people before terrible things happen to them.

Most are Dark Fantasy; but in his book about writing he notes that he's written things in all the genres because during a certain point in his career the guy was using something like 9 or 10 pseudonyms.

He's published 80 novels.

 

[biodroid]

I wouldn't say fantasy, I would more likely call it supernatural than fantasy. Fantasy in respect is like LOTR, Harry Potter. Lightning is more of a Sci Fi thriller when important plot lines get revealed. The one that sounds fantasy-ish to me is By The Light Of The Moon. Just because it sounds unbelievable doesn't mean it's fantasy. Stephen King wrote a book about an old man who can see on different planes of existence (Insomnia) although it seemed to have elements of the fantastical but it was no where near fantasy. It was a supernatural horror/thriller. I think Koontz wrote shorts about fantasy but his mainstream stuff is more horror thriller type stories. Has he really written with 9 pseudonyms? I only heard of Leigh Nichols and that was an interview he did a long while back. Just seems wierd because I have read everything by Koontz except his new stuff. Please don't take this wrong I am not trying to diss you it's just hard to think Koontz writing fantasy.

 

[j d worthington]

biodroid: I'm afraid I have to disagree there. This is much too narrow a definition of fantasy, as has been brought out in various discussions on the boards; it's a quite recently evolved one, as well, and would leave out the vast majority of what are considered to be some of the most important works in the field, including a fair chunk of Dunsany, Morris, Lindsay, etc.

Now, I've not read much of Koontz' work, but from the descriptions I've come across, it does seem he's written fantasy -- just not the heroic or epic fantasy that (sadly) far too many people see as the only types of story fitting that label....

 

[Urien]

DK is one of the most successful authors in the world. He's so prolific that I often wonder if he's cloned himself. His work ethic is phenomenal and every now and then he comes out with a gem. I wish I could work a quarter as hard or successfully as he does.

On the fantasy issue I maintain that supernatural horror is fantasy. A vampire is no different to a Balrog or fairy (faerie, or faery).

 

[KESpires]

Exactly, if we narrow fantasy to LOTR derivatives then we'd lose out on things like The Stand and Castle in the Sky. Lots of things have fantasy elements and get grouped with horror or mainstream, but to me if it relies on things that cannot be explained for plot then it is fantasy. To be honest, and this is just me, but most SF might as well be fantasy because much of the science is pure conjecture. Maybe we'll do FTL one day, but who knows.

But that's just me.

But definitely, Koontz has on many occasions written fantasy. Dark Fantasy, horror sometimes, but fantasy.

I like it.

 

[Connavar]

I find supernatural horror or supernatural thriller to be quite lame names. Just call it fantasy or urban fantasy or dark fantasy.

I have read Odd Thomas and are on my second book The Husband now. I think he is talanted specially for a such bestselling writer, lets face it most of them arent that talented

Since i like him so far i wish there were more talk about his work instead of wondering about where his subforum is.

 

[KESpires]

Well as far as the subforum, I only mentioned it because it shocked me he didn't have one with as massive of an author as he is.

I do think he's better than most at what he does. Koontz and King stand out in the dark fantasy genre as very precise in delivering their scary visions to their readers. King is much more horrific than Koontz while Koontz prefers to write almost heroic fiction masquerading as horror sometimes.

I haven't read The Husband, but I have read the first three of the Odd books. I have to say that the second was way too straightforward to me. It was an extremely linear point A to point B so that he can write book C situation.

Brother Odd was really good though, "He is the Never Was and I don't care."

Best line ever.

 

[biodroid]

So where does horror fall into then? Consider one of his most famous books called Watchers, although it is classed as a horror it has "fantastical" creatures but they were human engineered (the smart dog and the super mutated baboon). Although the technology does not exist today I am sure in the future it can exist and one can make the ultimate killing machine like the super baboon. I don't think thats fantasy or dark fantasy etc. Please don't get me wrong I am not trying cause trouble/grief here I was just under the impression that horror is horror and fantasy is fantasy unless all the libraries I have been to are wrong in categorizing their books. LOTR is fantasy to me full stop and Pet Sematary is horror.

 

[Ice fyre]

Hey Bio droid.

Dont worry about starting discussions that is what the Chrons is here for you know, your doing fine by the way!

AS to the question at hand I feel that some Horror is Dark Fantasy, as lets face it, the plot lines usually revolve around magic and the supernatural. Staples of Fantasy to my mind. But not only that create set worlds E.G Clive Barker with Imagica and weaveworld, to name but one.

The thing about the Fantastic genre (by that I mean Horror Sci-Fi and Fantasy) is that its so fluid that it usually intermingles creating a new subgenre from two or more of the big three main genre's. As such it really is hard to say whats what.

 

[KESpires]

Naming all the subgenres seems like overkill to me sometimes. Fantasy, Epic Fantasy, Sword and Sorcery, Dark Fantasy, Magic Realism, yada yada yada...

I'm the kind of person who just reads the back cover and if it sounds like it is up my alley, then I go for it.

 

[KESpires]

So where does horror fall into then? Consider one of his most famous books called Watchers, although it is classed as a horror it has "fantastical" creatures but they were human engineered (the smart dog and the super mutated baboon). Although the technology does not exist today I am sure in the future it can exist and one can make the ultimate killing machine like the super baboon. I don't think thats fantasy or dark fantasy etc. Please don't get me wrong I am not trying cause trouble/grief here I was just under the impression that horror is horror and fantasy is fantasy unless all the libraries I have been to are wrong in categorizing their books. LOTR is fantasy to me full stop and Pet Sematary is horror.

No worries about the discussion, that's why we're here.

What we're really discussing here is how narrow do we want our definition of fantasy to be. I read one review of Heart Shaped Box by Joe Hill and it correctly classified it as Dark Fantasy. It can be called a horror novel and that'd be correct as well. But it concerns an old rock star who buys a dead man's suit online and in turn gets his ghost as well.

LOTR is an example of a classic Epic Fantasy. Because of how popular it is we tend to use it as a measuring stick by which to measure everything we now consider fantasy. Before LOTR, however, fantasy had a much broader definition.

As for how the libraries classify the books: They just do that for their and your convenience. They put likeminded books together so you can browse easier. But that doesn't mean that a steampunk story where someone uses magic to see the future or scry on enemies abroad isn't fantasy. The same goes for the dark fantasy where a guy finds out there is a vampire in his town. Some of the stories lean more on the fantastic, some on the graphic horror, but they rely on their fantastic elements to drive the story, and that to me makes them a fantasy.

Just my definition.

You could probably get really philosophical and say that fiction that involves events which are unlikely or people who don't exist might be considered fantasy. That'd include books like No Country for Old Men and other thrillers. But I don't bend that far.

 

[biodroid]

Would someone like Tom Clancy who writes techno/political thrillers be classed as writing fantasy to a point because his technology might not exist in the real world today, maybe in 10 years it might. Point is he writes plausible real world type stories with but according to the definitions presented above he should be classed under a type of fantasy like for instance technological fantasy or something silly like that. I get what you guys are saying is that any story no matter what it's about has fantastical elements in it hence fantasy is about creating worlds, be it earthen or middle-earth from your imagination and dishing out ideas and making you believe this could exist. I never really saw horror as being a dark fantasy because we are brought up to think that books are genre specific. I agree that now, after a bit of pondering, horror would fall under dark fantasy and it makes sense.

Hehe what would Mills & Boon fall under (Not that I read any, please people I am not a mills & boon reader, repeat I do not do Mills & Boon)?

 

[Ice fyre]

Sniggers


Mills and Boons

Sniggers again, out and out Gfaws.


Good point Bio droid, bet your a secret reader! Thing is those tech thrillers use a bit of Sci-fi, as we have to resort to fiction to tell what is going to happen in the future. Also they have to speculate a bit. After all DUNE to me is a political thriller set in the far future, with speculative elements about our political and general racial evolution.

It could also be taken as perhaps a period drama set in a future speculatve period, have Mills and boons ever published a science fiction romance?

"Todd unclasped his helmet seal to reveal his dark itialian good looks, his smouldering gaze fell upon the alien princess, he fell to her side and brushed away the tentacles and kissed her gently her on Grouta za!"

You buy that one Bio droid?