Rhaegar Revisited. A Rambling ...

[Charming Serpent]

Just dwelling on Rhaegar as I am want to do when stumped. Hoping something here will click on a lightbulb in someones head. Not in order, my ramblings:

Rhaegar was noble, just, dutiful, beautiful, respected, honored, somber, fair and Rhaegar was able .... able above all.

He and Aemon knew of TPTWP prophecy. At first, both believing Rhaegar to be such. Later, Rhaegar came to believe it was his own son, Aegon.

While the rebellion raged, Rhaegar, who was all these qualities of good, could not be found. What would cause him to ignore all that he was known for??? What could be so paramount? Love seems too little an answer for someone who seems too strict, too in control. He was in the South. Tower of Joy? Not leading and army, not explaining what had happened, not giving counsel. All things he was known to do. Would do in any other time, but what could be so tanamount to drive him from that?

He often visited Summerhall, alone and would return with songs of the death of kings and twilight. Often thought by some to singing of himself and those he knew.

His eyes gave off the impression that he had been wounded.

He was sent to find the identity of the Knight of the Laughing Tree at Harrenhal. At the same tourney which he wins, he skips over his wife and hands the blue winter roses to Lyanna Stark.

Lyanna disappears and is said to have been abducted by Rhaegar.

From all accounts, Rhaegar did not lie, cheat, visit brothels, or do anything to discredit his office, family, his self.

He returns from the South, marshals and army and rides forth to his doom.

Whispers the name of a woman as he dies.

Seems distracted at his last meeting with Jaime Lannister. Talks of changes to be made and roads not taken.

The 3 closest and deadliest of the Kingsguard were not found with Rhaegar at the Trident. Not protecting the King after the Prince was killed. Not fled to Dragonstone after the King had been slain. They remained, while the war raged, they remained at the Tower of Joy. Refused to flee what they were guarding in there and fought to the death.

Their job is to guard the Targaryen heir. With Rhaegar slain and his children slain the next in line would be his unborn son if he had married again as the Targs were known to have more than one wife. Perhaps the KG there had known of the unborns , TPTWP?, importance? Or perhaps just Rhaegar?

Lyanna is found with fever, weak and abed holding dead winter rose petals. Gore splattered all over her. She repeatedly says "Promise me, Ned"

 

[slik_rik]

hmmmm
i think there has to be some sort of magical tie in with rhaegar as i believe there are some truly important facts grrm is obviously keeping from us

apart from howland reed is there anyone else who may have moe information on rhaegar?

on a side note i will be seriously annoyed if howland reed does not appear in ADWD cos i really dont want to hav to wait another 3-5 after adwd comes out (or longer) to meet this man with so many of the answers

 

[Charming Serpent]

Barristan will know more, but I am worried that he won't know as much as people hope because he seems to have blinders on do to his honor and duty.

From the Spoilers I have read Illyrio Mopatis knows a sh*t ton about more about Targs/TPTWP and maybe AA than just trying to place another person on the Iron Throne.

Varys. I believe he knows some juicy tidbits.

 

[slik_rik]

It could be possible that Varys actually does not know all of rhaegars secrets especially what happened when he went missing CS. I wonder what Tyrion will do and how this will affect what we learn of Rhaegar and the events at the Tower of Joy?

 

[TK-421]

But does Barristan really know all that much? He has gone to Dany to counsel and protect her but he has not gone to Jon. He would of gone to Jon and the Wall after beign dismissed by Joff.

Unless he intends to bring Dany to Jon and unite the two Targaryen heirs to the throne.

 

[Charming Serpent]

I dont think he knows anything about Jon. He was fighting and wounded on the Trident around the time Jon would have been being born.

 

[schpat]

I dont think he knows anything about Jon. He was fighting and wounded on the Trident around the time Jon would have been being born.

Just throwing a spaner in the works here.

One of the major "items of proof" offered for R + L = J is that three members of the KG were at the Tower of Joy when Ned finds Lyanna. The argument is what would they have been doing there if not protecting the Targ Heir.

The thing is that Rhaegar would have given them the order to stay at ToJ and then taken the three KG to the Tridant. Surely the three he took with him would know why the others stayed behind. Of the three Baristan is still around.

But Baristan has loads of honor and has commented on keeping the Targ secrets so maybe if he knew he didn't tell anyone.

There was one other member of the KG that is still around, Jamie Lanister. Now if all the other KG knew why those three were at ToJ why not him? And why has he not told anyone?

Just thinking here

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Jaime wasnt near Rhaegar...Jaime comments that Aerys liked to keep him around as a hostage for his father sort of thing. Jaime was clearly at Kings Landing guarding Aerys for all this....he had to be there to kill Aerys and his Hand no?

It wouldnt be atypical to send a member of the Kingsguard on an important task that wouldnt necessarily directly protect one of the blood royal. Like Swann taking the head of Gregor (allegedly) down to Dorne, or Jaime pacifying the riverlands. So maybe Selmy was tasked to join the army at the behest of his King as a commander or tactician and wouldnt know anything about Rhaegar and Lyanna...

 

[Gambit]

Even if Barristan knew about Rhaegar and Lyanna, he would have no knowledge of what happened to their child after the battle. All three of the Kinsgaurd were killed along with Lyanna at the ToJ, how could he assume the child survived? So even if Barristan knew that Rhaegar and Lyanna had a child together there is no way he would have ever connected the child back to Jon Snow, Eddard Stark made sure that the mystery surrounding the child's birth remained secret. And no one has cause to doubt that Jon is Eddard's son, he is the spitting image of his "father."

This is why Howland Reed is so important!!! Other characters, like Barristan, may have bits and pieces of the puzzle, but Howland is the only one alive who knows enough to put it all together. He better be in ADWD.

 

[TK-421]

All this trust in a small frog-eater.

True, Barristan may not have known right away about Jon or he may have been told by Rheagar or seen things while Rheagar and Lyanna were alive or told by Varys later on. Anyways, I was questionning how much Barristan really knows and his actions do not reveal much so far.

 

[Gambit]

Ha ha more like so much hope in the small frog eater, I can only hope. And true, I think that is why there are so many different views in this discussion right now. All we really know is that Barristan knows something. What this something no one knows, he has been far too vague. If he really knew about Jon though, I don't know why he wouldn't tell Dany, this informations seems to be too important and too sensitive to keep to himself.

 

[schpat]

Maybe he's not telling her because if a child exists she would not be the rightful queen

 

[TK-421]

A rightful queen she would be over a *******. But these things tend to be highly subjective. Just look at the history of Mary I and Elizabeth I.

 

[Gambit]

But does Barristan really know all that much? He has gone to Dany to counsel and protect her but he has not gone to Jon. He would of gone to Jon and the Wall after beign dismissed by Joff.

Unless he intends to bring Dany to Jon and unite the two Targaryen heirs to the throne.

I think this is still the biggest issue. If Barristan knew he would have said something by now. He tells Dany that he knows many stories about Rhaegar and yet, at her request, he is willing to keep his information to himself. If he knew about a child between R and L still lived it would seem significant enough to mention something.

sorry i know this is getting repetitive.

 

[slik_rik]

Ah yes ...hmmm.....you are forgetting that Rhaegar never publicly stated lyanna was his wife. Therefore as i have said before (in part i think) if R+L=J then jon is not eddards ******* bur rhaegar's *******. THis means he is still a ******* just someone eles *******.

 

[Charming Serpent]

As long as a marriage is consumated it need not be punlic. Therefore it would still be legal. I.e. Tyrions own marriage that the Lannisters still bittterly mention from time to time.

Also, perhaps Rhaegar and/or Lyanna realized that "who the hell cares about marriages and legality when the whole human realm is going to fall unless we do it and get a kid soon" ??

 

[Boaz]

Continuing with the OP.

I’ve been thinking about Rhaegar recently. I feel that we think about Rhaegar more than Eddard did. Do you remember Eddard’s POV when he realized that he had not thought about Rhaegar in years?

He saw Jon every day. He was reminded of Lyanna often. If R+L=J, then why didn’t Eddard think of Rhaegar for years on end? Sam is preparing to present Mance’s son as his own *******. When he thinks of the boy do you imagine that he will not also think of Mance Rayder? Conclusion: there is no link between Rhaegar and Jon.