Confidence, and the lack of.

[shadowbox]

I had recently asked a friend here on Chron for some advice. He gave me loads, and then sent me to you lovelies for more.

Lately I have found that I have not wanted to write, because I am actually making progress, and progress means I could actually finish this thing. If I actually finish this thing, some one might actually read it.

That seems to be my problem.

If some one reads it, they will judge it, and maybe hate it. I don't know if having strangers hate it would bother me, so much as my friends and family. Sure, harsh criticism would hurt, but I think I could overcome it. Here on Chron, critiques are done with tact, and respect. In the real world, well, how much respect is left.

And on top of that, my very Catholic-Republican family may become interested in it, and I know that they would be disappointed to find out that I have pumped out a GASP dark, demon ridden fantasy novel. My friends too, might see a side of me they didn't know about and judge that. Even now when a friend reads any thing I write I find myself feeling embarrassed, even if they say they like it.

It seems silly to me, even as I write it, but it is holding me back.



How does one over come and deal with these problems?

-Shadow Box.

 

[Sapheron]

Well, I suppose technically they never have to read it. You could write an entire novel, have it published and have it on the shelves before family members and/or friends ever get a glimpse of it. If you really don't want them reading it, then that is an option.

On the other hand, if you do want them to see it, and are nervous as a result, there isn't really a cure. You've just got to get on and show them. If they don't like it then that's just a difference of opinion. If they start judging you as a person because of a book you wrote then they're the ones that have the weird side to them. If your writings showed your 'dark side' then most of the people on this forum would already have been taken away by the men in white coats.

Honestly, who'd judge someone for a fiction story they made up?

 

[HareBrain]

It seems silly to me, even as I write it, but it is holding me back.

Can I just suggest something, which might not apply to you at all, but is just based on my own experience?

It might not be this which is holding you back; you might have another reason for not progressing but you might be attaching this reason to it because it's more acceptable (to you) than the truth.

In my case, the truth is often laziness.

Seriously, you might have jumped ahead and now need a period of recuperation or consolidation; you might find it intimidating the amount of editing you'll have to do on what you've already written, etc.

The first novel I wrote would never have been acceptable to most members of my family. I just assumed I could somehow make sure they never read it (or if they did, it would be such a thrill to get it published that if it did cause problems with them, I would be able to deal with it at the time).

 

[Boneman]

And we all have that fear of showing it to close family and friends, that they might not like it, because in so many different ways, we need their approval. Could I write a porno book and have my wife's approval? Probably not, and although Shadow's predicament isn't that stark, I can see how it would be a problem. Maybe if you write under a psuedonym, shadow? I'm going to publish under a pseudonym because I don't want everyone to know I'm making millions, and send me begging letters. they hardly ever work, so I'm going to stop sending them out.

Alternatively there's the 'friend' routine..... "A friend of mine wrote this, and wants to know what I think of it". This way you get brutally honest answers that might hurt, but it's the truth. Only one of my friends gave me an honest appraisal of my first effort, all the others said "I really like it, it's really good." Then when I told them I'd written out a character altogether, they'd say "Yeah, he seemed really unrealistic, didn't see where he fitted in...."

Let's face it, there were people around the world who violently objected to Harry Potter, because it might encourage children to believe in magic. Also that it encourages devil-worship.......... Apparently there are those who don't know what FICTION means.

Shadow, from what I've read, your story might have demons and the like, but it's a pretty moral story, isn't it? ie the triumph of good over evil? St George and the Dragon, all the Disney films that had dragons and monsters in, were all moral tales, so it isn't important what the setting is (even if family and friends might not approve totally) it's what your story is all about. I'd refer any doubters to this forum. Or tell them to read the bible, there's more horror in there than people realise. There's devils, debauchery, and sin by the bucketful, but guess what? Good triumphs.

If either of my sons wrote a book that wasn't my cup of tea, I'd still celebrate their achievement. Blimey, they might join a rock band and make music that I hated, but I'd be immensely proud of them (Okay, whilst wearing earplugs). Is it possible you're assuming something that might not exist in the way you think it? I'm certain you could present it in a way that said "I've written a moral story that's set among demons and vampires, it's the struggle to overcome innate badness, and I'd really appreciate your opinion"

Yer might just be surprised..... If not, then it's their choice to be upset, you in no way upset them, they decide for themselves. There are those who choose to be upset by Billy Connolly (Chris Rock?)'s language, and those who cannot see anything to upset them. Personally, I find the 'F' word funny in some comedy, stupid in others, and upsetting in others, and downright ridiculous in the rest. But it's my choice, no-one forces it on me. If they don't approve of your writing, it's because they choose not to, and the rest of the world will love it. Maybe they'll even admit to being wrong, if they go down that path, and come to their senses later. It's your writing, your creation, and it's damned good, so keep at it, finish it, edit it, edit it, edit it, get an agent, geta deal, and then show it to them. And good luck!!

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I wouldn't worry about what your friends and relatives will think, if I were you. In my experience, relatives who don't read SFF usually buy my books but don't actually read them, or if they do, they're so thrilled to be related to a writer they're inclined to be generous in their assessments. That last part, by the way, was true even before I had anything published.

Oh, and there were a few, very religious in-laws (now deceased) who probably equated fantasy with black magic, but tactfully avoided the subject of my writing altogether. I used to worry about what they might think until I realized how little chance there was that they would ever buy any of my stuff, let alone read it.

 

[shadowbox]

As always, Chron delivers wonderful advice.



Boneman, this made me laugh.

There are those who choose to be upset by Billy Connolly (Chris Rock?)'s l

I know who Billy Conolly is. I mean, I know I am 21 and all, but honestly I think I prefer him over freaking Chris Rock's crap.


Thank you every one, so much, for your support, and for listening to my whining.

 

[jezelf]

I share your concerns. I try to tell myself not to live my life through the expectations of others as I will never live up to it. Im worried that I may write something someone in my family may not like, but have to remember I'm not writing it for them but myself and hopefully,eventually for people who do like reading fantasy.

we write to express ourselves and our expression is a form of our indivdual opinions. As indivduals it's good and become expected (thankfully) to respect that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but unfortunatley not everyone respects opinions other than that of their own.

I ask the question " is this person ready to accept this?" - if I know it may have controversal content, if no, then don't take what they say to heart if they read it. An open minded person would say something like " not my thing, but I wish you every success" . We like different things, which leads to more variety than if we didn't, so if you have a friend who doesn't like it, you probably will have a stranger who loves it.

We always want those we love to approve of us, it's a natural human group behaviour. A lot of the archetypes in stories are facets of ourselves, and stories help us explore those facets. We have the phrase 'our inner demon' which ,in a story might sound like a literal monster on the surface but in it's really about, say, one of the deadly sins. So where it may read like 'the devil' which someone may say you're evil to even think of it, it may really be exploring sides of humanity in an illustrative form. I dont think anyone is a pure saint.

I too have family that would not be impressed by, say Billy Connolly though I love his sense of humour , My mum and Dad would find him funny but I can hear them say 'does he have to be so crude?' - and there would a very uncomfortable silence in the room if we were watching Chris Rock .It would be turned over.

I personally don't think has to swear so much, but out side the swearing, I do find him funny. I accept there's a cultural difference and it's part of who he is and howhe got to where he is now. I can choose not to watch him if I so wished.

I'm with you about feeling like you're holding yoursef back, but I guess if I don't write what my heart wants to, then I am denying myself of my true potential for the sake of offending others.

Of course, this is all just my humble opinon

This book might help - I've got it and it's a good read. I doubt my work is any good or would be liked by others and this helps put things in perspective and to show what my fears are about. it's not a big book and very readable.

Art & Fear: Observations On the Perils (and Rewards) of Artmaking

 

[Precision Grace]

Honestly, who'd judge someone for a fiction story they made up?

Christian-Republicans, obviously.

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

Shadow, let me tell you: As David Eddings said in one of his pieces, don't love yourself. Writing isn't an easy field to get into. First, write up a million words. Then burn them. Then write more.


You need to shove fear of rejection and criticism aside in order to succeed. Recently, I got rid of sixty-three pages of hard work because others didn't like the part of it I showed on here, and it didn't bother me in the slightest.

 

[mygoditsraining]

Screw your courage to the sticking point and go for it. Sure, you might feel a dizzying plunge in the pit of your stomach the first time a family member picks up the manuscript and flicks through it, but that's just a primal, physical response that doesn't help you in any way whatsoever. If it makes you feel any better, thrust the pages into their hands and then run really fast round the corner and climb up a tree to satisfy the flight response.

Hide cookies in the tree beforehand.

Sure, some of their feedback might be hopelessly poor due to prejudice or sheer disinterest in the genre, but it doesn't matter because now it's out there and you'll feel less and less shy about ramming it into the hands of people whose opinions lead to edits, agents or publishing.

My brother hates the fantasy genre. He despises it. Loathes it. If it's got a sword and/or a dragon on the cover? He's out. I still send him everything I write, simply because I find his total contempt for the setting to be a great litmus test for how compelling the story is.

 

[Boneman]

He's out. I still send him everything I write, simply because I find his total contempt for the setting to be a great litmus test for how compelling the story is.

Mygoditsraining, I love this idea, what a great take on a negative to positive turnaround...

Jezelf, you're spot on...... and that link is brilliant, just read the customer reviews if you don't want to buy the book....

Aren't these chrons the best thing since marmite soldiers???

 

[shadowbox]

Thanks guys. I can't say that I am going to jump out there and start shoving my stuff under my families noses, but I did tell my mother-in-law about it, which is a leap for me. As for the rest of them,

Maybe I will wait till I am famous and published. Then no one can tell me it's worthless crap.

Well they can, but it won't mean so much to me.


Thank you everyone, for all your help! Just knowing that I am not the only one to struggle with the perils of our own kin makes the battle worth fighting.

And thank you Jezelf for the link, most helpful

 

[chopper]

show it to strangers!

no, i'm not kidding. go find a writing group. people who love to write as much as they love to read. they don't even have to like fantasy (though that helps) - it's just writers together.

ask at bookshops, or the library, or even browse the net to see if there's one in the area. bizarrely enough i joined a writers' group after it was announced here on the Chrons - and i've written about 50k words as a result over the last 12 months, completing 2 short stories, getting halfway thru 2 more, and making a big dent in the WIP to boot.

seriously: show it to strangers.

 

[Writers Blocked]

Shadowbox, this sounds familiar to me to. I also tend to fall back on the old saying that my fear of failure is surpassed only by my crippling fear of success. After all, it's easy if your family doesn't like it, but dear God, what would be the consequences if they said they LIKED it?

Sorry, I haven't got a solution to it, but I can tell you that you're not alone.

 

[HareBrain]

I agree with Chopper - show it to strangers, and maybe only to strangers. Wanting the approval of friends and family is natural, in a way, but a handicap. And it's odd that this applies to art rather than our day jobs. I don't really care if my family think I'm good at data processing (apart from my brother, who's my boss) - should I care if they think I'm a good writer? There's part of me that needs family approval too, but I get that from other areas than writing - just as well, since they show pretty much zero interest in it.

 

[The Judge]

Of course your family are going to judge you by what you write. Just as they judge you by what you say and what you wear. It's human nature and there is no way you can avoid it, other than by denying yourself the pleasure of writing, or rather, if you are like me, the deep visceral need to write. (Well, I suppose you could arrange for them to be massacred before your book is published, but that's a little extreme, even if it is your mother-in-law.)

What you have to ask yourself is - why should I give a flying fig for what they think? If they are true friends then they will accept your writing as they accept your dress sense or your accent or whatever - it might not be to their taste, but you are you and they love you. If they are the kind of people who are going to think badly of you for what you have written, then frankly you have no need of them in your life and you are better off finding that out sooner rather than later.

There is one other thing you ought to think about, though. I have always had had a problem with finishing things. I put it down to a dilettante nature and a low boredom threshhold. But I read somewhere that this form of procrastination is linked to excessive perfectionism and a fear of failure. After all, it was easy for me to say that I could be up there with all the really good authors, if only I'd had time to finish the book. But if the book is finished and I'm still not recognised as Jane Austen crossed with Gene Roddenberry then perhaps it's because I'm not good enough - and who wants to hear that? I'm not saying this is you, Shadow, but after you deal with the family problem, if you still find it hard to get on with concluding the book, just think about it. (By the way, the answer is to keep repeating to yourself that firstly you are good enough, and secondly at least you damn well tried.)

J

 

[Shoegaze99]

How does one over come and deal with these problems?

By knowing that you HAVE to or else you will never, ever, ever write for anyone but yourself.

If that's all you want to do, that's fine. Nothing wrong with that. But if you hope to write for publication or to entertain people or for any reason beyond amusing yourself, one of the first and biggest hurdles you have to overcome is the fear of showing your work to others.

Know that YES, some of your writing WILL suck. It just will. That's not a comment specific to you. All of us will write some clunkers. That's fine. It's no big deal. You've got to write some garbage before you can write some gold.

Know that YES, some people will say they like it when they really don't, and that they're just being nice, and that when you realize this it will hurt at first -- but it SHOULDN'T because being nice for its own sake does. Not. Help you.

Know that YES, the more people see your work the more criticism you will receive. And know that that's fine and good and WELCOME. Criticism is not a bad thing. It's HELPFUL.

Know that YES, if you only want validation that your writing is good and don't ever want to face criticism, it's better to just keep your writing to yourself. Pats on the back from friends and family offer encouragement, but they don't help you improve your work -- assuming that's your goal.

But again, the most important way to overcome the hurdle is simply to realize that you MUST put your work in front of other people if you hope to do anything but write for yourself.

My family can read my work if they want to, but I do not seek out their opinions. I love them, but their opinions are of no help or use to me. I'm happy to let them read something if they ask, but these folks aren't editors or writers or anything of the sort, and their opinions will always be tainted by their relationship to me. I'd rather have input from third parties. But that's just me.

 

[briantm]

Can't remember where I read this but paraphrasing from somewhere or other:

Would you still want to write it if you were the last person on earth? You need to write because you want to write.



Oh, and don't forget, once you put down that final sentence you've really only competed the first draft. Plenty of re-writing to go after that

 

[HareBrain]

Would you still want to write it if you were the last person on earth? You need to write because you want to write.

I think many (most?) people write through a desire to communicate something. If there's nobody to communicate with, it makes the whole thing pretty pointless.

Oh, and don't forget, once you put down that final sentence you've really only competed the first draft. Plenty of re-writing to go after that

No argument there!

 

[briantm]

And alien archeologists wouldn't enjoy deciphering your journal of the last days of the last man?