When will Harry the Heir die?

[Eulalia]

How long will it take for Harry to die? Do you think he will die off camera? How will it happen? After he has more book time? Will he disappear? I'm betting he isn't long for life on Westeros.

Anyone think he will surprise, and become a major character?!

 

[Culhwch]

I really need a reread. Who on earth (or Westeros, for that matter) is Harry the Heir? It's tickling a memory, but it just won't surface...

 

[Boaz]

Cul, Harry the Heir is Harrold Hardyng, cousin and heir of Robert Arryn. The Tower of the Hand does not have a bio on him, but you can see his connection to the Arryns on Wikipedia. Littlefinger seems to be scheming to marry him to Sansa and then kill Robert thus making Harry the Lord of the Vale (and of the North, if you can get past Ramsay and the fact that Bran and Rickon are still alive) in one fell stroke. If Jeyne Stark is not pregant with Robb's heir and if the Blackfish dies, then it seems that Sansa is also heir to Riverrun (of course this assumes that Bran and Rickon are dead and it also ignores the fact that the Emmon Frey is now Lord of Riverrun, but I think Cleos was his only son). If Harry died childless, then Sansa (Littlefinger's puppet) would be the Lady of the Vale... presumably, Littlefinger thinks he can control Sansa easier than the highly unstable Lysa. Littlefinger, as Lord of Harrenhal could then marry Sansa and legally control the Vale and the Riverlands... if he could somehow gain Winterfell through Sansa, he'd count that as a gift.

So how long until Harry dies? This presumes that Littlefinger is already planning out Robert's murder. Okay... Littlefinger will not murder Harry until he's Lord of the Vale and married to Sansa... but Littlefinger will murder him before he fathers a child upon Sansa.

Of couse, this begs the question "How long until Littlefinger murders Sansa and consolidates power in himself?"

 

[MIDNIGHT]

OH Boaz !!! Your sooooo silly, Littlefinger won't murder Sansa!

 

[Boaz]

First... It is known.

Second... You know nothing, Midnight.

Third... What did your son wear for Halloween this year?

Fourth... What was I talking about?

 

[Ursa major]

Strictly speaking, the various direct male heirs of Winterfell don't have to be killed: one or more of them might be persuaded to join, or otherwise find themselves in, the Night's Watch.


(And if Littlefinger doesn't dispose of Sansa, how would he be able to marry Dany? )

 

[the smiling weirwood]

Because he's deluded and thinks Sansa is Cat 2.0 and he's sooo in love with her.

 

[Boaz]

Cat 2.0? So what does that make Stoneheart... Cat 1.5?

Now one thing that may stand Harrold Hardyng and Sansa Lannister in good stead is that neither of them are Lysa and Robert Arryn. Lysa had no respect for Petyr's plans, nor would he include her because of her lack of patience and realpolitik. She was severely deluded and emotionally unstable. That being said, Lysa was more stable than Robert. If Robert was healthy (both emotionally and physically), then Littlefinger might think of keeping him on for a while... being underage, he could be married to Sansa and not be expected to consumate... the Tyrells used this to gain titles and lands without really giving up anything (i.e. Margaery's virginity, if it is still intact).

Littlefinger, in my opinion, is Machiavellian or Bismarkian in his view of politics... realpolitik applies to him. But it seems that he has a soft spot for Sansa due to his unresolved feelings for Catelyn. In the long run, what will dominate concerning Sansa... passion or politics? I think when push comes to shove that he'll be shoving another of Hoster Tully's progeny through the Moon Door. So sorry, Sansa. Too bad. So sad. Bye bye. Don't cry.

 

[MIDNIGHT]

TSM, you took the words right out of my mouth !! Boaz, Boaz, Boaz ..... TSM is absolutely correct, delusional was a fine word to select. Sansa will be Littlefingers downward spiral, he has an unhealthy emotional attachment to her that will most likely end up with him going c-c-c-crazy. Love or delusional love is going to make his thinking a little foggy.
P.S. my son was a monkey

 

[Boaz]

Monkey 2.0? Trick or treating is such fun at that age... oh, I can't stand it... of course, I serve Kamikazes to the parents on the driveway...

Back to Baelish... I think it's too obvious for his feelings for Catelyn/Sansa to be his downfall. I think this turns into a romantic figure, a sympathetic figure... I mean, we've made fools of ourselves for love, right? I don't see GRRM doing this. No, I think that when given the choice between a chance at love with Sansa and a shot at ultimate power that Baelish will prove what an avaricious rat he really is.

"Life is not a song, sweetling. You may learn that one day to your sorrow." Also sprach Littlefinger.

 

[viZion]

Sansa isn't going anywhere. I'll refer to a previous post of mine:

http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/47935-next-shocking-death-2.html#post1200455

In there I base Sansa making it through simply on the fact that if she dies no one would really care. Killing Starks is an art form for GRRM. When he does it he wants it make a huge impact on the reader. Unless she undergoes some pretty severe personality changes, no one is going to be floored by her death in the same way they were floored by Ned's or Robb's or even Lady's deaths.

The post after mine, by Gambit, also brings up a great point. If Sansa dies then we lose the only POV in that area of the world and miss all of the rest of Littlefinger's machinations. GRRM wants us to see that stuff. You can tell he really likes writing about Littlefinger.

Edit: Just noticed the post after Gambit's, by TK-421, also brings up the Littlefinger POV point.

 

[The Imp]

Sansa isn't going anywhere. I'll refer to a previous post of mine:

http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/47935-next-shocking-death-2.html#post1200455

In there I base Sansa making it through simply on the fact that if she dies no one would really care. Killing Starks is an art form for GRRM. When he does it he wants it make a huge impact on the reader. Unless she undergoes some pretty severe personality changes, no one is going to be floored by her death in the same way they were floored by Ned's or Robb's or even Lady's deaths.

The post after mine, by Gambit, also brings up a great point. If Sansa dies then we lose the only POV in that area of the world and miss all of the rest of Littlefinger's machinations. GRRM wants us to see that stuff. You can tell he really likes writing about Littlefinger.

Edit: Just noticed the post after Gambit's, by TK-421, also brings up the Littlefinger POV point.

Speaking only for myself of course, I can imagine GRRM creating a way for Sansa to die and having it hit most readrs like a ton of bricks. Given all that has transpired to date I think it's safe to say that no character, minor or major, is "safe".

 

[Ursa major]

But who's to say that the Maid of Tarth won't find herself wandering aimlessly through the Vale of Arryn...? (Apart from the Cat with two lives, that is.)

 

[Gambit]

Speaking only for myself of course, I can imagine GRRM creating a way for Sansa to die and having it hit most readrs like a ton of bricks. Given all that has transpired to date I think it's safe to say that no character, minor or major, is "safe".

I would never doubt GRRM's ability to do whatever he wanted with the characters. But I don't think Martin has laid the foundation for Sansa's death right now. No one is safe forever but Sansa has not quite reached the stage of character development for death yet.

 

[Eulalia]

Well, Harrold seemed like a "red shirt" to me. Maybe that is a trick, and he lives a long and happy life with Sansa!

Littlefinger may do something psycho and do Harry in on Sansa's wedding night, in front of her, so that he can "consummate" with her. Marry her. Keep Robert as the crazy and drugged Lord, for now. Meanwhile, Sansa gets a clue, and utimately pushes her sweetie out the moon door.

Oh yes, the Maid of Tarth. Brienne and Momma Cat find Sansa, and dispose of Littlefinger, instead. Can't forget about Arya either.

But Boaz may have a point with the suggestion that Robert dies before Harry, so that Harry can be the Lord of Arryn first. Robert seems to have the mark of a non survivor, too.

Can't see Harry being part of the Watch at this point, as he isn't even that significant. But it does seem a good way of eliminating excess male Lords.

Yes, it would seem a waste to develop Sansa to this point, and to end her story abruptly, with us being more or less indifferent to her. Get with it, Sansa!

 

[Boaz]

Eulalia, you're a football fan... excellent.

If Harry dies before he inherits from Robert, then Littlefinger's plans fall apart. He's Robert's stepfather, but he's gonna need a better claim to hold the Vale.

 

[MIDNIGHT]

I can't say that I honestly think Harry has a large role to play. I kinda feel that he is a diversion of sorts. Harry the Heir will die shortly ..... when the long winter descends on Westeros. Pretty insignificant !

 

[the smiling weirwood]

Without Sansa, what will Baelish do when he's clawed his way to the top? Cat was always his uttermost goal in life, the reason, one way or another that he began his long upward ascent but she was forever out of reach. I think he means to have Sansa instead.