Wild speculation thread* Possible spoilers*

[The44]

Cowl cannot be Harry's father unless Harry has believed a lie all of his days.

Cowl seems too powerful to have been Harry's uncle. Justin had his strengths, but he was defeated by a very young Harry.

I, sadly, must agree that JB might just make Luccio a double agent. It would just add to the emotional destruction of one Harry BC Dresden. As if he does not have enough emotional scars already. Sigh. Just once I would like to see him win on the emotional front. I would rather see her killed in a fight than have her be a traitor.

I am way too involved with Harry's wellbeing.

 

[Ice fyre]

I wonder who Cowl is, as to the Denarians if I'm not mistaken they know nothing of the Black Council. How convenient tho that Harry has taken out one of the few forces capable of getting them to work together.

The membership of the Black council does puzzle me. One of the White council is certinly there, I think doing the wrong thing for the right reasons. Red Court? Possible there, but not really convinced on that. White Court, unlikley, Black court, well there really is only Marva strong enough. Jade court, well we really dont know much about em.

So who else?

 

[Saeltari]

You think Susan would work for the BC?

Yeah, I know Harry's father was supposed to have died but I was thinking the Vader relationship thing.

 

[Highlander II]

In the books, Justin isn't Harry's uncle, he was Harry's foster / adoptive father. And Harry was only able to defeat Justin b/c of his godmother.

It hasn't been directly mentioned in the books, but Harry alludes to trading something to Lea for power. He doesn't say exactly when, but it was probably before he took Justin down. (Either then or when he was stalked by 'He Who Walks Behind'.)

And, remember that Elaine helped Harry out a little bit when he was tied up by Justin. So he wasn't entirely alone. Not to mention, Harry has some really strong 'innate' power.

I'm relatively certain that Harry's father is dead, considering Harry now believes that it was less 'natural heart attack' and more 'supernatural badness'. Okay, part of that is me *hoping* daddy doesn't get a chance to come back, b/c that's almost *too* much.

There are enough 'already bad' characters in play that I don't think Harry needs more 'badness'. Besides, can't the man have ONE family member whose only objective in life was to make a decent living for his family the only way he knew how? XD

 

[Ice fyre]

I dont think Susan is working for the BC, willingly or un willingly. My money is on the present Merlin, but of course thats quite obvious, maybe too obvious.

I always thought Harry took out his step father by a healthy dose of luck and I thought he made the deal wi Mab later. Or wasnt it his mother who made the deal? Also was the man who Harry always thought was his father actually his father? It seems every book reveals something he didnt know before, and sets up a dozen more questions.

Bet it gets worse after the next one!

 

[Highlander II]

Harry didn't make a deal with Mab. It was with Lea. Mab later 'trades' with Lea for Harry's deal.

I'm pretty sure that taking out Justin wasn't just a stroke of 'luck'. Harry's got a buttload of power, but he may not remember how to channel or access it - or he didn't until v. recently. However, like those huge adrenaline rushes ppl get in extreme situations, Harry may have pulled up that power to take down Justin. (Or, he might've had help - we don't know.)

The point about Malcolm not being Harry's father has been brought up before and it's possible that he wasn't. However, I like to think that he is Harry's father - again, b/c Harry's life is already so screwed up, he doesn't need to find out that the man he thought was his father really wasn't and someone (possibly) a whole lot worse actually was.

Keep in mind that people in the wizarding/magic world know that Harry's 'important' somehow. IIRC Justin knew and the Senior Council knows what he's 'supposed to become'. (I know there's a line from someone about that somewhere.) It's part of why the White Council is afraid of him - they know something Harry doesn't and rather than giving him that information, they're keeping it from him. Obviously Justin would have kept it a secret b/c he wanted to mold and shape that power in his own image - I figure Justin was 'building a weapon' for his own 'plan'. The Council is afraid that Harry will go 'dark side' on them if he knows more than he does.

 

[The44]

Harry didn't make a deal with Mab. It was with Lea. Mab later 'trades' with Lea for Harry's deal.

Ha, I was right that Mab now has Harry's debt. She got it from Lea.

I'm pretty sure that taking out Justin wasn't just a stroke of 'luck'. Harry's got a buttload of power, but he may not remember how to channel or access it - or he didn't until v. recently. However, like those huge adrenaline rushes ppl get in extreme situations, Harry may have pulled up that power to take down Justin. (Or, he might've had help - we don't know.)

We have no real hints or clues that anyone else was there. The WC certainly wanted only Harry's head for the deed.

The point about Malcolm not being Harry's father has been brought up before and it's possible that he wasn't. However, I like to think that he is Harry's father - again, b/c Harry's life is already so screwed up, he doesn't need to find out that the man he thought was his father really wasn't and someone (possibly) a whole lot worse actually was.

I do too. Harry has enough emotional scars to go along with his physical ones.

Keep in mind that people in the wizarding/magic world know that Harry's 'important' somehow. IIRC Justin knew and the Senior Council knows what he's 'supposed to become'. (I know there's a line from someone about that somewhere.) It's part of why the White Council is afraid of him - they know something Harry doesn't and rather than giving him that information, they're keeping it from him. Obviously Justin would have kept it a secret b/c he wanted to mold and shape that power in his own image - I figure Justin was 'building a weapon' for his own 'plan'. The Council is afraid that Harry will go 'dark side' on them if he knows more than he does.

Yes, it is no accident that all of this garbage keeps dumped on Harry's head. There is a reason for it that JB has in mind. To go along with this is Harry's rather unique healing ability. There is something special about Harry. Breaks into song.

 

[Ice fyre]

As ever Highlander I bow to your superior knowledge, you are indeed correct. Now as to the council fearing Harry maybe there is a prophecy I cant remmber anyone talking about it, maybe I missed it. Where was that?

I am inclined that they fear Harry a bit more because he is a challange to the set order. The fact he is setting up a support network for young low powered adepts, that many young wizards admire and some even hero worship him. To the more paranoid in the community perhaps they see this as setting up of an alternative power base.

He is also seen as a loose cannon by the older more conservative wizards, a bad influence and to some of the less moral members of the community, a threat to the control over the Satus Quo.

We know there is a traitor in the white council perhaps this traitor is doing what he sees as the only thing he can do to save the wizarding world is to destroy it from within.

 

[Highlander II]

The White Council (at least the Sr. part of it) fears Harry b/c he's done 2 things - taken out his teacher (and lived to tell about it) and taken down one of the 'old ones'. Harry has a LOT of power and wizards on the Council know this.

They don't like that he practices the wizard bit openly, but that's the 'surface' excuse they use to dislike him. He's done a lot of good. Of course, he sort of also started a war, so he's done some not-so-good too.

The 'network' he set up isn't a bad thing, considering the number of wizards who've been taken down by the war, so I don't think that's an issue (though I could be wrong).

The 'prophecy' thing, I think, is mentioned in Summer Knight, though I can't recall exactly where right off.

 

[Lissa]

After reading all your comments on what is going on in Harry's world I have decided I need to reread the entire series. I need a serious refresher before i read the next book.
As to Harry's love life, I have to agree that there is only Lucio at the moment that could possibly work out for him. It would ruin his friendship with Murphy to go any further and the dynamics would be off. Susan is to into herself to ever have it work. The reason the war started is because she stole and forged a copy of Harry's invite to the vampire party. She was being selfish wanting the next big story and not thinking of the consequences.
As to the swords, Morgan is a possibility but I think he may be a bit to rigid for the job. I think there is a possibility that what's her name who studied with Harry under Justin could be one but I think we have a new player showing up soon for one of the swords.
The Merlin is openly hostile to Harry which begs the reason why? Is it Harry's secret history, his ability to create loyalty in those who befriend him, or his penchant for finding trouble (although it is more like trouble finds him). I agree that the Merlin is too obvious a choice for the black council double agent.
Harry's mentor(can't remember his name - Ebaenezer?) even as the White Councils hit man shows too much integrity to be the BC agent.
I can't help but wonder though what the deal was with Harry's mother. And there is more to the bond between Harry and his half brother than just a sharing of blood.

 

[thepaladin]

Let me drop in late and hopefully "re-awaken" this thread. There is a lot covered in your discussion, and it shows how great JB’s books are that we can get this into them Like lot of you, I like Luccio and never really liked Susan much. She was as has been pointed out far to into herself. The act of "sneaking into a Vampire soiree ( especially not understanding "the rules") was too much like the heroines of the old movies who insisted on "going with you" or "taking care of myself" and only managing to endanger everyone else in their attempts. Still JB seems to working on maturing her so...I better just shut up and wait, huh?
I think Luccio might end up being on the BC, but I hope not. Harry’s record in "affairs of the heart" hasn’t been too sterling so far and that could really scar him. Bob’s a possibility, but I doubt it. Harry got the scare of his life when he "unleashed" a part of Bob from when he was serving a "dark" sorcerer. Bob is as I understand it a spirit of intellect or knowledge, a form of air elemental. He’s either actually afraid of what he’s capable of and dark magic itself, or a very good actor. The Merlin in particular and the WC in general think his skull was destroyed. They don’t know Harry has it (him).
JB has hinted all along that there is something about harry that he himself doesn’t know, sort of the prophesied hero syndrome. In Small favor Harry has a couple of big changes, first he is just now apparently coming into some of his "wizard senses and powers" and..he has been "led" into the use of Soul magic....could be big stuff. So, I suspect JB has something in mind.
The Swords...right. You know Harry has established that the White Vamps aren’t actually "undead" They are either possessed (Like the Raith house other than Thomas) or struggling against it (that’s Thomas). If at an early age they "make the right choice" they don’t end up Vamps at all. It would be possible I believe that Thomas might be "rescued" from the "daemon" pushing him in the "incubi" direction. Could be.
I’m still hoping for Karen as far as the katana goes. She is such an obvious choice. Her reason for turning the sword down (honoring the oath she took and meant as a police officer) actually argues for her. Don’t know, Jim may not want it to go that way.
The on I’m a little "afraid of" because I really don’t care for the character (I don’t mean he’s not written well or not a good part of the books, just the opposite, he’s so much like a person to me I mean he’s someone I don’t care for, it’s the same way Harry feels about him). I find myself wondering about a "repentant" Johnny Marcone" as sword wielder. He’s been forced into "reviewing " the damage he’s caused in his life a couple of times now.
Oh well, anybody else with new thoughts? Maybe Turncoat will throw more light on some of it...Planning to try and grab it the day it comes out!

 

[Rothgar]

I don't see Marcone as a sword wielder. If Harry would unmake a sword by improperly using it I don't see a way Marcone could ever wield one. Besides so far he only fights when he has to, he's the brains behind his organization. My guess at this point is for Thomas and Kincaid to receive swords. I think Morgan and Murphy would be the perfect two to get them at this point because of their personality types, but I don't think Murphy will change her mind (at least for a while) and I don't think Morgan would care about the Denarians as long as he is a warden. I don't really see the point of a wizard having one of the swords with the power they already have. Does anyone think Michael will get better?

As far as the Black Council goes, I have no idea. If Justin is alive he is probably a part of it. Ancient Mai? I agree with everyone else that The Merlin is too obvious. Luccio would be possible. I was just thinking she seems too nice so far, but maybe she has a BC mission of turning Harry to their side. Getting close would be the only way to do it.

If Morgan is going to be framed and on the run for something in Turn Coat the book will probably deal with a lot of this Black Council stuff. It'll be interesting to see what more comes of the Soulfire.

 

[thepaladin]

Like most, I don't care for Morgan, but the point in the next book may be to force him to "finially' revaluate his relationship with Harry. Don't know. for now I don't see him as a sword wielder. The point i was making with Marcone was how much he's served "evil" in the past. Harry would have unmade the sword by using it to carry out a lie or deny his obligation...as the Red Court would have by slaying an innocent. If Marcone "repents" and "turns" then he would be a "true convert". In liturature and real life it seems to be true that "no one is harder on a thief, than a reformed thief." As I said, I don't care for Marcone, but I wonder if there isn't a "redemption" theme going on. That could work for Thomas to.

Not arguing for it, just that I see it as a possibility. Personally I hope it doesn't go that way.

You know Anciant Mai is still a conundrum, along with most of the senior council of the White Council. The BC could still hold any of them I suppose. I'd hate for it to be Ebenezar, but I suppose he could have ended up disillusioned at some point. Then there's the gate Keeper, well so on.

 

[The44]

Will Ancient Mai turn out to be a dragon as she was depicted in the TV series? If so, then her loyalties may be more at odds with the WC than we may have believed. The dragon we met at Bianca's party was no one to mess with, but he clearly had his own morality and that had little to do with human morality.

I agree that just because the Merlin is a pain in the backside does not make him an ipso facto candidate for the BC. Of course, it would just like JB to make someone so obvious turn out to be the one, after all. hehe

Yes, Harry's growth in ability is a good trend for the series. It is very consistent with a wizard's lifespan and is definitely good for the story line. Harry's enemies are not pushovers and he needs all of the abilities he can get.

The speculation about the White Court vamps is very interesting. I had not verbalized it enough to see the truth of what was stated above. Nice job, BTW. That would be a hoot to see Thomas with Amoracchius. Somehow the idea of the Sword of Love going to an incubus is just too delicious. mwaahaahaahaa JB would definitely climb up in my estimation for irony and a great pun.

 

[thepaladin]

I side stepped the dragon thing about Ancient Mai. I don't recall anything in the books that would lean that way. But the mystery thing and "possibly" anti-Harry thing is really there. Right now I think the question is wide open.

 

[Highlander II]

Aww - I'm sad that people don't like Morgan. I find him interesting.

Granted, I didn't like him in "Storm Front", but he grew on me in later books and now I'm really looking forward to reading "Turn Coat" to see what else we learn. Backstory is love! =)

 

[Saeltari]

I have to agree with you. I didn't like him much at first but he kind of grew on me, not in the way fungus would, unless it was benign...

He's not bad and I am looking forward to the new book for much the same reasons.

 

[The44]

I expect to see a lot of changes for Morgan in the next book. Somehow, I would not be surprised to Amoracchius make him an offer. That does assume that wizards are eligible. I really am looking forward to the next book. Pant, pant.

 

[Highlander II]

The main the to remember about ALL of the characters in the books is that we seem them all through Harry's 'eyes'. So, if Harry doesn't like a person much, we're not likely to like them either.

Our first 'image' of Morgan is the scary guy w/ the sword who's there to take out Harry for breaking the rules. Not a likable guy there. Later Harry realizes that Morgan is like a 'cop', and sees him a little differently, so we do too. Well, that's the general idea, anyway.

I don't remember when I started *really* finding Morgan interesting, but probably when we started learning more about him.

 

[Saeltari]

The main the to remember about ALL of the characters in the books is that we seem them all through Harry's 'eyes'. So, if Harry doesn't like a person much, we're not likely to like them either.

Our first 'image' of Morgan is the scary guy w/ the sword who's there to take out Harry for breaking the rules. Not a likable guy there. Later Harry realizes that Morgan is like a 'cop', and sees him a little differently, so we do too. Well, that's the general idea, anyway.

I don't remember when I started *really* finding Morgan interesting, but probably when we started learning more about him.

Probably about the time Harry started respecting him as an actual person , going by what you are saying. Which, by the way, makes quite a bit of sense.