Why are Targaryens not blamed by anyone for incest...

[Cerenna]

....BUT the main arguments people usually have against Jaime and Cersei is the fact that they are committing incest.

Isn't this very much hypocritical? So what if Targaryens had 'ancient Valyrian customs'? I bet they simply liked keeping things in family and used that as an excuse.

 

[Bazza]

Hi Cerenna, and welcome! Perhaps people aren't as up and arms against the targs because they are dead and gone, whereas the Lannisters are in the main picture taking up a majority of the screen time with their illegitimate offspring parading around for all to see. (and potentially screwing up the realm) I'm sure if the targs of old were in the main picture they'd have the same gripes.

Or maybe Jaime and Cersei are so very easy to hate! Jaime at the beginning at least.

 

[Boaz]

Aren't the Targaryens remembered as almost more than mortal? Because of their dragons and unusual physical traits, they were judged by different standards than other people. The lords of Westeros put up with a lot from the Targaryens, I think in part, so that they could boast that their kings were almost divine... But when Aerys started a bloodbath among the nobility and wanted to murder young men who'd not even entered the political arena, Jon Arryn put his foot down.

The lords of Westeros were of predominately four distinct ethnic origins and/or religions. The descendents of the First Men hold the north. They are dark haired. They worship the Old Gods. The descendents of the Andals are tall and fair haired. They rule the east, west, Riverlands, and the Reach. They worship the Seven. The descendents of the Rhoynar live in Dorne. For the most part they are dark, but some Dornishmen show interbreeding with the Andals. The Dornish worship the river goddess, if I recall correctly. The Ironborn rule the Iron Islands. I don't think they're ethnically related to either the Andals nor the Rhoynar... they might be related to the First Men, but that's a guess. Their religion is that of the Drowned God.

None of these peoples are Valyrian. None of them possess silver hair nor violet eyes. We're not told of the religion of Valyria, but presumably the Targaryens adopted the worship of the Seven when they conquered Westeros... or at least the Targs put up with the Faith. In fact, they abolished the military arm of the Faith (which Cersei just allowed to reform). I think that the conspicuousness of the otherness of the Targaryens allowed them great leeway in rule and living.

To support this, soon after Targaryen rule ended the Ironborn (twice), the First Men, many of the Andals, and even some Dornish wondered why they should be under the rule of the Iron Throne when a Targaryen is no longer sitting on it.

Edit: I forgot to say, "Welcome, Cerenna!"

 

[Bayou Boy]

We're not told of the religion of Valyria, but presumably the Targaryens adopted the worship of the Seven when they conquered Westeros... or at least the Targs put up with the Faith.

In A Clash of Kings, we learn that Aegon the Conqueror knelt in Dragonstone's sept to pray the night before he sailed to conquer Westeros. We also learn that the gods in the sept had been carved from the masts of the ships that had carried the first Targaryens from Valyria.

In other words, the Targs had converted long before the Wars of Conquest.

I think, in addition to the reasons you give, the fact that incest was a common practice in Valyria is another one of the reasons it was tolerated. It's not like the Targs seized power and suddenly started marrying their siblings.

In fact, they abolished the military arm of the Faith (which Cersei just allowed to reform). I think that the conspicuousness of the otherness of the Targaryens allowed them great leeway in rule and living.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out in later books that the Faith Militant used the Targ incest as one of its justifications for rebelling after Aegon I's death.

 

[Werthead]

I wouldn't be surprised to find out in later books that the Faith Militant used the Targ incest as one of its justifications for rebelling after Aegon I's death.

That's an excellent idea, one I hadn't seen before. I've also wondered if the Faith weren't too keen on the centre of the religion being moved from its millennia-old home in Oldtown to the young, upstart city of King's Landing.

 

[TK-421]

Did the religion of the Seven in Westeros predate the beginning of Targaryen rule? Or could it have been brought with them? I'm a little rusty on this aspect of the history of Westeros.

 

[Ursa major]

At the risk of choosing a dubious source, the third meaning of Sept on Wiki is:

Sept, a church or temple dedicated to the Seven gods of the Andals in George R.R. Martin's fantasy series, A Song of Ice and Fire.

 

[Cerenna]

Aren't the Targaryens remembered as almost more than mortal? Because of their dragons and unusual physical traits, they were judged by different standards than other people. The lords of Westeros put up with a lot from the Targaryens, I think in part, so that they could boast that their kings were almost divine... But when Aerys started a bloodbath among the nobility and wanted to murder young men who'd not even entered the political arena, Jon Arryn put his foot down.

It does not matter whether the Targaryens are 'divine' or not. Jaime could claim he is divine(well, he kind of is ), get himself a dragon, and then it would be all right for him to commit incest with Cersei?

I wouldn't be surprised to find out in later books that the Faith Militant used the Targ incest as one of its justifications for rebelling after Aegon I's death.

Yes...but the Targaryens, in the end, conquered them.

I wonder if readers, once the Lannisters conquered the realm, would still blame them because of incest or go along with it as it happened in the Targaryen case?

Oh, and another thingy I forgot to mention in my first post-nobody ever thought ill of Dany because she had fully intended on marrying Viserys and because(as some claim) she shall maybe marry Jon Snow, her nephew(if R+L=J).

Thanks for the welcome, everybody!

 

[Ursa major]

The problem of the incest in the case of Cersei and Jaime is that, biologically speaking, their children are not the offspring of King Robert and so may not be considered to be his legitimate heirs.

If the Lannisters came to control the whole of Westeros (south of the Wall), this may not be such a big issue (as it were ).

 

[Bayou Boy]

Yes...but the Targaryens, in the end, conquered them.

I know. The issue is why folks were so accepting of it. I think it's reasonable to suspect that the incest (viewed as a strict taboo by the Andals) might have been a rallying point used by the Faith Militant during the years of rebellion during the reigns of Aenys and Maegor.

I wonder if readers, once the Lannisters conquered the realm, would still blame them because of incest or go along with it as it happened in the Targaryen case?

Maybe after a couple of hundred years, sure, but, as it stands, I don't think the people of Westeros would be particularly accepting (privately, at least) of Lannister incest. There's no way to rationalize it. The Lannisters can't claim ancient custom supporting a tradition of incest, etc.

Oh, and another thingy I forgot to mention in my first post-nobody ever thought ill of Dany because she had fully intended on marrying Viserys

Big difference between Dany and Cersei and Jaime.

1. Dany was raised with the expectation she'd marry Viserys. This was in keeping with family and cultural traditions dating back to ancient Valyria. Cersei and Jaime were raised in the Andal tradition in which incest is a big taboo.

2. I could be wrong, but if Dany had intended on cuckolding her husband with her brother and passing off the resulting offspring as her husband's, people probably would have thought ill of her.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

Many people are not inclined to disagree with someone who has dragons. Just saying.

After their dragons were dead it was just the way things were and no one thought to question it.

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Yup yup...winners write policies, losers cry about it. Its the way of the world.

 

[Boaz]

Did the religion of the Seven in Westeros predate the beginning of Targaryen rule? Or could it have been brought with them? I'm a little rusty on this aspect of the history of Westeros.

The worship of the Seven did predate Targaryen rule by a couple thousand years. The first Andals arrived with their seven pointed star tatoos and drove out the First Men and the Children of the Forest. They were the ones who got rid of the trees with faces south of the Neck.

I could be wrong, but if Dany had intended on cuckolding her husband with her brother and passing off the resulting offspring as her husband's, people probably would have thought ill of her.

Actually, this scenario happened before... Maester Aemon was named for Prince Aemon the Dragonknight who was either his great granduncle or his great grandfather depending upon who was telling the tale. King Aegon IV married his sister Naerys and his younger brother Prince Aemon became Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. And as the last post says...

Yup yup...winners write policies, losers cry about it. Its the way of the world.

Westerosi history remembered King Aegon as the Unworthy and Prince Aemon as the Dragonknight... and nowhere is Naerys called the Faithless or the Slut.

 

[Koopa]

I do believe Boaz comes closest in saying that the Targaryens where considered special.
For all their supposed beauty, Cersei and jaime look aren't otherworldly. Their colouring can be found aplenty, lots of lookalikes of them can be found in Lannisport.

The same can not be said of the targaryens. Imagine you live in a world, with no television, real media, and so on. And there comes a family, whose hair/eye colour are unique in this world, have the control of huge impressive legendary dragons, upon which they fly, and with whom they (or there predecessors) conquered the whole of westeros. Seeing them in control of beasts like that, one can not help but think they really are more them human. No doubt they where considered more then just kings, almost godly. And like the gods possible intermingle with each other, so do they. Whom are we little humans to pass judgement upon the divine, they must have thought. Jaime, and cersei are not considered divine however. They do not meet the many of intangibles the targaryens had going for them. The only ones considered to come close, like ugly ducklings, like less then the runt of the litter compared to the targs where the velaryons of whom some mates where chosen.

 

[No One]

The Targs were certainly considered more-than-mortal by some, and most definately among themselves. I suspect their supposed divinity is a big factor in their psychology and, hence, occasional madness (along with a perversion of the gene pool).