Voyage to Arcturus

[ravenus]

Finished with David Lindsay's fantasy novel Voyage to Arcturus, which I thought was a pretty interesting read on the whole with some great flights of imagination. The message offered at the climax seems a little glib for the entire arduous journey undertaken, but perhaps I may have missed something of its allegedly layered philosophical content.

To my understanding, the base theme of the story was that no specific way of life, no allegience to a specific god / faith is in any way intrinsically better than any other, that all claims made about god or religion or the "purpose" of the human race as such are pure conjecture and do not hold any value. Am I deluded in assuming this?

It'd be great if other people could put in their opinions and impressions of this work. It was only once I was done with it that I noticed that it was one of the early fantasy works and I should say that as a book it does not feel dated at all.

 

[HareBrain]

I've read it twice, probably about ten years ago and five years ago. For some reason I tend to take and enjoy stories at face value, only seeing even fairly obvious subtexts when they're pointed out, so i only had any inkling what it was about (above the superficial) from reading reviews of it on Amazon etc. These haven't stayed with me though; what's stayed with me is an impression of almost frightening weirdness and power - not only the power of the images and events, but the power that drove Lindsay to write it in the first place.

It does feel dated to me, mainly because I couldn't see it being written now; it would be hamstrung by the conventions of a genre that didn't exist at the time. I certainly don't believe anyone would publish it. The only things I would compare it to are the first two of CS Lewis's space trilogy (especially Perelendra) and the works of William Blake.

I'd very much recommend it to anyone who wants to read something different.

 

[GOLLUM]

Being one of the classics of the Genre I've decided to move this thread to Classic SFF.

I myself have read this book but it was some while ago and I can't remember all of the details but I know several other members have also read this book, so you will get further feedback.

Cheers....

 

[antiloquax]

Many thanks to HareBrain for mentioning this book on another thread. I have downloaded an audiobook of it from Librivox. I've only listened to a few chapters, but I am very impressed. I love how Maskull has some new sense organs when he wakes up on Tormance. It's a very unusual book - wildly inventive. I am so glad that HareBrain put me on to it.
I also really like the philosophy of the woman Maskull meets on Tormance. I'm looking forward to the rest of it very much!

By the way, Librivox has free audiobooks of some other SF classics eg. H. G. Wells, Marion Zimmer Bradley, E.E. "Doc" Smith, Jules Verne, Edwin Abbot, Edward Bellamy, E. M. Forster (The Machine Stops) and some other more recent things by writers like PKD, Harry Harrison, Robert Silverberg, Clifford Simak etc.

 

[HareBrain]

I also really like the philosophy of the woman Maskull meets on Tormance. I'm looking forward to the rest of it very much!

There's plenty more unusual philosophy to come, don't worry!

Glad you're enjoying it. Hope you can give us your feedback on the whole thing when you've finished.

 

[Elflock]

Sorry,but I think this is another classic example of a hopelessly overrated book...I've read it twice,in the 70's and 90's (because I foolishly used to think that if something was a so-called 'classic' it must be at least ok) and both times I was totally underwhelmed. Why this thing is always included in 'best fantasy/sci-fi' lists etc is just way beyond my feeble brain to comprehend. Which means nothing of course,because I also think Lovecraft,Tolkien,Lewis,Machen,Eddison,Cabell and a lot of the other so-called 'top shelf' sci fi/fantasy writers are equally unreadable and overrated. I have no interest whatsoever in what is known as 'good writing'...what a load of rubbish that whole idea is!! The stupid use of ridiculously long sentences is the main thing I hate about a lot of the so-called good writers...they seem to write it as if they want to exclude any reader who doesn't have an IQ of 250 and an elephant's memory or something. By the time I get halfway through the sentence,I've forgotten the beginning of it and I have to keep going back...how is that 'good' writing? If Lovecraft,Lindsay,Tolkien,Lewis etc are examples of 'good' writing,then I just prefer bad writing. I think a 'good' writer is one who can tell a story...that anyone can read and understand.

 

[antiloquax]

@HareBrain - yes, I'll def comment again.
a

 

[HareBrain]

I think a 'good' writer is one who can tell a story...that anyone can read and understand.

With respect, I think what you mean is that you think good writing is writing you can enjoy (which, let’s face it, is everyone’s position, mine included). No book can be enjoyed by everyone, just as not everyone could understand a paper on quantum mechanics, no matter how accessible its author tried to make it, and not everyone would gain enjoyment from a book aimed at a seven year old. I find some books too difficult to be enjoyable, but that doesn’t mean I think their authors pretentious, nor do I think they should dumb down their language and ideas to a level their peers would find boring just to suit me.

What I admire about Lindsay is that he was a visionary. He had a story and a truth burning inside him and he needed to express it. Yes, he could have made it easier to read, but that’s so far beside the point it’s not even on the same continent. I didn’t understand Voyage to Arcturus on my first reading. I only started to understand it on my second because I’d read up about it. But I was excited by its intensity and its stupendous imagination, and a sense that it meant something, both to myself and to the person who created it. Thank God he didn’t try to compromise his vision to make it more popular. He would never have succeeded without wrecking it.

 

[Elflock]

With respect, I think what you mean is that you think good writing is writing you can enjoy (which, let’s face it, is everyone’s position, mine included).

Wow,amazing,a reply! Yes,obviously that's correct. I just didn't like that book,simple as that. To be honest I remember nothing at all about 'Voyage to Arcturus',except that it was a total struggle to finish both times! And I was afraid people would take my argument as the 'dumbing down/anti intellectual' sort of thing...but that's not at all what I meant. I understand where you're coming from,not everyone reads fantasy books just for the romantic story like I do,fair enough...everyone's different.
But what I was trying to say is that I just disagree with most of the so-called 'literary critics' etc about what constitutes 'good writing',that's all. For instance,if it's an 'unreadable neurotic misogynist drone' like Lovecraft,(I love that description from Moorcock) I simply disagree with the majority of critics,I just think that's bad writing,full stop. A good writer to me is someone like Haggard,Morris,Moorcock,Fowler Wright,Shiel,CAS,Howard,CL Moore,Brackett,Merritt,Stevens,people like that...I don't think anyone would argue that their work was anti intellectual or juvenile or whatever,but they just knew how to write a good imaginative story that anyone can read and understand. The way I see it,books are like music...what is good? What is bad? Nothing,it's all just music...or books.
Cheers

 

[antiloquax]

@Elflock - fair comment. Reading tastes are very personal. If we all liked the same things life would be very boring. Respect to you for reading it twice since you didn't even like it!

[Partial Spoiler Alert]




@HareBrain. I am stunned by this book. I was gutted at what happened to Oceaxe (she's an amazing character - how could Maskull resist her??!!)
Also very surprised by Maskull's behaviour after leaving Joiwind and Panawe. I am quite confused about the main character - but in a good way!

 

[Extollager]

As an aside -- this is an ARCTURUS thread, not a Lindsay thread -- but a couple of weeks or so ago I suddenly read Lindsay's THE HAUNTED WOMAN and THE VIOLET APPLE. Both took some perseverance, but I was impressed. I would describe them as stories such as Charles Williams might have written if he were a Gnostic rather than a Christian, but except for his last two novels Williams tends to write in a more entertaining manner than Lindsay. Haunted Woman must be a weird classic.

 

[Elflock]

If we all liked the same things life would be very boring.

Couldn't agree more!

 

[HareBrain]

But what I was trying to say is that I just disagree with most of the so-called 'literary critics' etc about what constitutes 'good writing',that's all.

Can't argue with most of your post, Elflock, and I like the comparison with music. (Lindsay strikes me as being a bit like prog rock.) I'd just say that I would be surprised if literary critics actually liked Lindsay, or at least for his prose. I don't think he was a particularly skilled writer, just a highly imaginative one with a unique vision. He was a mystic, and I guess you either go for that or you don't. (Unlike eg Moorcock, who is actually a very intellectual writer, though as you say he chooses to write in a very accessible style).

As an aside -- this is an ARCTURUS thread, not a Lindsay thread -- but a couple of weeks or so ago I suddenly read Lindsay's THE HAUNTED WOMAN and THE VIOLET APPLE. Both took some perseverance, but I was impressed. I would describe them as stories such as Charles Williams might have written if he were a Gnostic rather than a Christian, but except for his last two novels Williams tends to write in a more entertaining manner than Lindsay. Haunted Woman must be a weird classic.

Since there are no Lindsay threads that I'm aware of, might as well stick this here. Have you (or anyone else) ever read Devil's Tor? I've been trying to find a copy for ages, but the only ones available are hugely expensive (three on Amazon, all for around £250!)

Also recommended (and more available): Colin Wilson's The Strange Genius of David Lindsay.

 

[Elflock]

(Lindsay strikes me as being a bit like prog rock.)

Haha,ok good call,yes I'm thinking about something like King Crimson
Of course,it's hard to pin things like this down,I do like SOME mystic/deeper type of stuff as well...I like all kinds of stuff I suppose,I go through phases...I'm not consistent like other people seem to be!

 

[GOLLUM]

Since there are no Lindsay threads that I'm aware of, might as well stick this here. Have you (or anyone else) ever read Devil's Tor? I've been trying to find a copy for ages, but the only ones available are hugely expensive (three on Amazon, all for around £250!)

Being a fan of Lindsay's Voyage To Arcturus, you had me intrigued...so I did a bit of searching on Amazon and found this 2011 edition of Devil's Tor at only $20 but both online sellers from New York who may not do International, noting you are in Sussex. You can probably get in touch with the publisher or search further with the ISBN/ASIN. If you source a copy, perhaps you can buy me a beer when I am next in the UK?...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004JBS5U8/?tag=brite-21


In fact looks like it can be downloaded as an ebook or possibly read online..

http://www.ebooknetworking.com/books_detail-B004JBS5U8.html

Good luck.

 

[GOLLUM]

MBy the way, Librivox has free audiobooks of some other SF classics eg. H. G. Wells, Marion Zimmer Bradley, E.E. "Doc" Smith, Jules Verne, Edwin Abbot, Edward Bellamy, E. M. Forster (The Machine Stops) and some other more recent things by writers like PKD, Harry Harrison, Robert Silverberg, Clifford Simak etc.

I discovered Librivox a few years back. I found that the quality of the narrators could be a bit hit and miss but for a free service it was still good to have...

 

[HareBrain]

Being a fan of Lindsay's Voyage To Arcturus, you had me intrigued...so I did a bit of searching on Amazon and found this 2011 edition of Devil's Tor at only $20 but both online sellers from New York who may not do International, noting you are in Sussex. You can probably get in touch with the publisher or search further with the ISBN/ASIN. If you source a copy, perhaps you can buy me a beer when I am next in the UK?...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004JBS5U8/?tag=brite-21


In fact looks like it can be downloaded as an ebook or possibly read online..

http://www.ebooknetworking.com/books_detail-B004JBS5U8.html

Good luck.

Thanks Gollum. The beer is yours for the claiming, but it'll have to be proper beer, I'm not buying any of that lager nonsense.

The bottom link seems to be for the physical book (the PDF link goes to another site with no mention of the Devils Tor) but I'm guessing from the absence of price that they have no copies. It looks from the top link that there might be a new edition out, so I'll keep my eyes open this side of the pond -- got to get through ADWD first!

 

[antiloquax]

@Gollum - yes I suppose the quality of readers will vary. The ones I've tried so far have been very good.

"The Haunted Woman" looks good too.

a