Question about simultaneous dialogue.

[BrianRigglesby]

Good day,

Here is my connundrum and how I have approached it; thanks in advance for any feed back.

They both began:
“Looks like the trade corridor will take us straight there.” Bob suggested, tracing the green line from their current location.
“A good place to throw anchor you know, it’d be right here.” Jim poking his finger a bit northerly of the blue dot.

Colon, comma, i am not sure, i am not listing anything but I want to show the reader that both sentences are being spoken at the same time, exact or slightly therein.

I hate "they both began" tbh. Should I make light of this situation in narration, i'm curious?




Much love,

B. Rigglesby

 

[Ursa major]

A question: is one of the two speakers the POV character?



I only ask because it's quite hard to hear - in detail - what someone else is saying when you are speaking. Here Bob is the POV character:

“Looks like the trade corridor will take us straight there,” Bob suggested, tracing the green line from their current location. He saw that Jim was poking at a spot to the north of the blue dot and was muttering something about an anchor.
​

And even when two other people are speaking, you do not hear what both are saying; not completely, anyway. Well I don't; I hear snatches of phrases from both OR I listen to one of them, as here:

“Looks like the trade corridor will take us straight there.” Bob traced the green line from their current location. All the while, Jim was poking at a spot to the north of the blue dot, saying something about throwing an anchor.

​

My 2c, anyhow.

 

[The Judge]

Hello there and Welcome to the Chronicles. I don't tend to haunt the introductions threads so I don't know if you've already popped across and introduced yourself there. If not, have a go and get properly welcomed.

Anyway, I have to confess I wasn't particularly taken with the way you've done this simultaneous dialogue. I think the first thing to ask is whether it is necessary. If not, think seriously about whether you want to interrupt the flow of a scene. If it is necessary to show their characters, for instance, then you will have to approach it in a different way.

By and large when two people begin speaking at the same time, one or both will stop when they realise what is happening. So it would read more realistically to me if it was something like:
“Looks like the trade corridor - ” Bob started, his finger on the map.
“A good place here - ” Jim said at the same moment.

If they are both egotistical alpha males who cannot bear to allow the other to speak, so that they do complete their sentences then I'd suggest something along the lines of:
“Looks like the trade corridor will take us straight there," Bob insisted.
“A good place to throw anchor you know, it’d be right here.” Jim spoke loudly, drowning out Bob's words.

I think the two main problems I have with your version are:

'They both began:' - this is awkward stuck out on its own and besides, they don't 'begin' they both finish.

'Bob suggested, tracing the green line from their current location.' - that is quite a bit of explanation to wade through before hitting the next line of dialogue which was meant to be spoken at the same moment.

While I'm nit-picking:

' “Looks like the trade corridor will take us straight there." Bob suggested...' - where the attribution runs straight on from spoken dialogue there should be a comma, not a full-stop (period if you're American) before the end of the quotation marks. ie ' "...straight there," Bob suggested.'

“A good place to throw anchor you know, it’d be right here.” - 'it'd' read oddly to me, even for direct speech. Wouldn't just 'would' be more natural?

'Jim poking his finger a bit northerly of the blue dot.' - either 'Jim poked' or 'was poking' not a hybrid, unless you intended '... said Jim, poking his finger...' in which case, you need the comma not the full stop before the quotation marks again.

Hope this helps - any questions just ask. And welcome again.

J

 

[Ursa major]

To be fair, Judge, I know quite a few people who continue speaking, hoping that the other(s) will stop first; which sometime they don't for quite a while**. And there is also the situation where simultaneous - and not particularly quiet - conversations break out at a meeting. Those not involved directly tune in to one or the other, depending on their interests or on how clearly they can hear each. This is why (big) meetings need a recognised chairperson.


How much we want to replicate real life - rather than simply get the story clearly across - is the issue.




** - And politicians also do it: Dianne Abbott (in particular) and, I think, Peter Lilley were doing it on the Radio when I first started reading this thread.

 

[The Judge]

Yes Ursa, I know, that's why I allowed for the type who continue talking. (And not just politicians who seemed programmed not to shut up!) I got the impression though that it was only these two men together with the map, rather than a meeting of several people. That's always the problem trying to judge something with little or no evidence!!

If I've got the wrong end of the stick, Brian, and there are several people in this scene, then Ursa is absolutely correct about the way people witter on in the background. How you write it then depends on whose POV you are going with - and of course what characters these people have, whether they are politicians and/or I-am-going-to-be-heard-regardless types, or more self-effacing sorts.

J

 

[BrianRigglesby]

A question: is one of the two speakers the POV character?

Nope, that dereliction falls to the narrator.

"A good place to throw anchor you know, it’d be right here

- 'it'd' read oddly to me, even for direct speech. Wouldn't just 'would' be more natural?

I think in this case I was going for a piece of dialogue that represented how the character knew his way around the map and quickly processed the tidbits of information he had gained previous, about their destination, but was relatively unsure as to the best course of action until ultimately seeing his target and making his final decision. Does that make sense? Should I use something more than a comma to show that thought?

'Bob suggested, tracing the green line from their current location.' - that is quite a bit of explanation to wade through before hitting the next line of dialogue which was meant to be spoken at the same moment.

That is why I think the best course of action would be to somehow manipulate through narration, to be continued.


Much obliged,

B. Rigglesby

 

[The Judge]

I think in this case I was going for a piece of dialogue that represented how the character knew his way around the map and quickly processed the tidbits of information he had gained previous, about their destination, but was relatively unsure as to the best course of action until ultimately seeing his target and making his final decision. Does that make sense? Should I use something more than a comma to show that thought?

To be honest, I'm not sure I understand this, but I'm never at my smartest on a Saturday. If you mean that he's still thinking about where to throw anchor even as he's starting to speak and doesn't make his decision until the 'it', then that isn't the implication I received when reading the line. If this is what you want then I don't think it would easily work with the two men talking over themselves - unless as Ursa mentioned there are several all round the map and he's just muttering away to himself. I don't think even an ellipsis in place of the comma would show sufficient pause to give an idea that he is thinking on his feet, certainly not between 'know' and 'it'd'. Though it might work at the end ie 'A good place to throw anchor, you know, it'd be... here.'

My point about 'it'd' was simply the use of 'it' which seemed odd. Take out the extraneous words and you're left with: 'A good place to... anchor... it [would] be here.' To me, it sounds more natural (if somewhat boring) to leave out the 'it' so you have 'A good place to throw anchor, you know, would be here.' But people do have strange quirks of speech which are ungrammatical and if this is one of his, then fine.

Hope the rest of what I said helped anyway.

J

 

[BrianRigglesby]

I decided that maybe adding more of the story would help better establish the vibe, i realize now dropping two sentences in like that can go in a million different directions, so here we go.

“Find it?” asked Alan returning to the table.

“Yeah mate its right here.” Gunther poked a finger at a pale blue spot along a thin green line. “Not too far off shore you know, looks like where it drops off, gets real deep.”

All frailties aside, Gunther was a master cartographer.

They both began:
“Looks like the trade corridor will take us straight there.” Alan suggested, tracing the green line from their current location.
“A good place to throw anchor you know, it’d be right here.” Poking his finger a bit northerly of the blue dot.

“Cast with the southerly wind you know, you want to be as far as…” his voice trailed, face souring, “You didn’t?”

Alan cast a half shrug and couldn’t help but smile.

“Are you out of your wits, that sordid cesspool,” he spits, “it’s full with Boggits, Boggits for a fact, as rumored, to have a price on your head! And you want to run straight up through there,” growled Gunther. “Bah I say to you Mr. Finger, your loony cakes.” Gunther crossed his arms and looked crossly toward the floor.

Aha! So basically my idea was to have Gunther's subconscience hear Alan say the words "trade corridor", however the subject at hand was all consuming, so like most people dealt a curve ball, he reacted proper slow.
The question becomes, doesn't he know the trade corridor is there, shouldn't he expect it? Maybe he's playing the hard fool, i dunno.

Peace yo.

B. Rigglesby

 

[Peter Graham]

And you get the punctuation edit for free........


“Yeah, mate, its right here.” Gunther poked a finger at a pale blue spot along a thin green line.

“Not too far off shore, you know. Looks like it gets real deep where it drops off.”

All frailties aside, Gunther was a master cartographer. Alan and Jim reacted instantly.

“Looks like the trade corridor will take us straight there,” said Alan, tracing the green line with a stubby/elegant/horny/well manicured/webbed (I don't know him well enough to comment) forefinger.

“A good place to throw anchor, you know, would be right here,” said Jim as he poked his finger a little way north of the blue dot.