Prologue vs encyclopedia

[Dimentio]

I have made the decision to take away my prologue in turn for an encyclopedia, as the prologue would leave the reader with more confusion and questions than a clear line. An encyclopedia would allow the reader to look into the relevant background story of the world? Do you think I am doing it right?

 

[Ursa major]

I have always liked dipping into encyclopaedias, jumping between entries, letting the links take me to places I wouldn't access directly.

However, I do not find the thought of a work of fiction starting with an encyclopaedia that welcoming a prospect. The place for this sort of thing is (much nearere) the back of the book, where those who dislike this sort of thing** can safely ignore it, while people like me dip into it during and after reading the narrative section(s) of the work.

If, however, you mean a short extract from your fictiona encyclopaedial, that may be another matter; but even with this, you would have to be careful not to simply create an info dump that turns prospective readers off.


Current advice is, I believe, to jumpr straight into the action. (Like all such advice, there are those for and against it.)



** - These may or may not be the same people who dislike maps.

 

[Dimentio]

I have always liked dipping into encyclopaedias, jumping between entries, letting the links take me to places I wouldn't access directly.

However, I do not find the thought of a work of fiction starting with an encyclopaedia that welcoming a prospect. The place for this sort of thing is (much nearere) the back of the book, where those who dislike this sort of thing** can safely ignore it, while people like me dip into it during and after reading the narrative section(s) of the work.

If, however, you mean a short extract from your fictiona encyclopaedial, that may be another matter; but even with this, you would have to be careful not to simply create an info dump that turns prospective readers off.


Current advice is, I believe, to jumpr straight into the action. (Like all such advice, there are those for and against it.)



** - These may or may not be the same people who dislike maps.

I have thought to place the encyclopedia at the end of the book. But the first book of my series is not so much about action. Its more about feeling into the pace of that world, which I think is necessary since that world is so very different from most other fantasy worlds. Its a much more organised society, its several civilisations, its conventions and social rules strange to us (profession is so important that a person is not working as a baker for example, but is a baker, whether he is baking on the moment or not).

And its a world with industrial-level technology (not steampunk, but rather some otherworldly version of the 1950's), and technology is constantly developing.

A typical fantasy world does'nt need a prologue, since most fantasy worlds are just variations of medieval England. The reason why a lot of authors have chosen to include a prologue is often more due to kitsch than to any need for a prologue.

I thought I needed a prologue, so I wrote one in the form of a excerpt of a school textbook for nine graders there (complete with questions directed at the schoolkids at the end of every part of it). The problem with the prologue was that to explain what happened in 7778, I had to explain what happened in 7777, and then 7768, and then 7765, and then 7757. Twenty-one years might not look as too much in fantasy timelines, but medieval worlds have slower timelines than modern ones.

A reader don't need to read the encyclopedia to understand the world, but she may like to go to the end of the book and look into it. Its not a full encyclopedia, just explanation of some in-world terms, some countries, cultural traits, history and so, as orientation.

 

[Ursa major]

I don't think the reader needs to be presented with (a significant description of many aspects of) the whole world in which a book is set in order to understand a story. Rather the world can be revealed as the reader follows the story.

In fact, isn't this why we read some books? We don't just want the plot to unfold, we want to know more about the world. Dump it in the readers lap at the beginning and you lose that extra reading momentum (not to mention all those readers who want to see a (hint of the) plot from page one).

Think of GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire. Yes there is enormous interest amongst its fans about who will backstab whom, who live survive to the end of the next book. But there is also tremendous interest in the world: its odd climate, the peculiar geography, the increasing rôle that magic may or may not play as the series continues. (Some of us even want to know if circumnavigation is possible - not that we doubt Martin's world is some sort of sphere - although it may not be - simply because it's an issue that has arisen from reading about the story.)

 

[Dimentio]

I don't think the reader needs to be presented with the whole world in which a book is et in order to understand a story. Rather the world is revealed as the reader follows the story. (In fact, isn't this why we read some books: we don't just want the plot to unfold, we want to know more about the world. Dump it in the readers lap at the beginning and you lose that reading momentum (not to mention all those readers who want to see a plot).

Think of GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire. Yes there is enormous interest amongst its fans about who will backstab whom, who live survive to the end of the next book. But there is also tremendous interest in the world: its odd climate, the peculiar geography, the increasing rôle that magic may or may not play as the series continues. (Some of us even want to know if circumnavigation is possible - not that we doubt Martin's world is some sort of sphere, simply because it's an issue that has arisen.)

Excuse me, but have you read what I wrote? I decided to take away the prologue, which did not even describe the world, but rather the period between the years 7757 and 7778. I have replaced it with an encyclopedia which I am going to put at the end of the book, not the beginning.

I am not dropping the entire world in the first book. That would be extremely endearing both for me and the reader. Rather, I begin softly. The first three chapters are actually introductions to the main characters and their different personalities. And then follows a plot which is more remniscent of a detectiv story/friendship story than an action adventure. The first chapters are actually very introspective, but the reader also gets to see a look of the world.

It is not some kind of world with broken gravity, dragons or wizards either, or a world with parallel dimensions, strange climate, or any of that. But its still a terribly complex world to describe, just because it does'nt fit into a fantasy stereotype. My closest friend has said that it in fact is impossible to classify as fantasy or science fiction, but rather as something entirely different.

 

[Ursa major]

Excuse me, but have you read what I wrote? I decided to take away the prologue, which did not even describe the world, but rather the period between the years 7757 and 7778. I have replaced it with an encyclopedia which I am going to put at the end of the book, not the beginning.

Yes I did read it, but I read this:

I have thought to place the encyclopedia at the end of the book. But....

to mean that you had considered (and perhaps were considering) placing the encyclopaedic sections at the end of the book, but were not yet convinced it was a good idea. (It is.)


And then you wrote this;

But the first book of my series is not so much about action. Its more about feeling into the pace of that world, which I think is necessary since that world is so very different from most other fantasy worlds. Its a much more organised society, its several civilisations, its conventions and social rules strange to us (profession is so important that a person is not working as a baker for example, but is a baker, whether he is baking on the moment or not).

This still reads to me like you were planning on spending a lot of time setting the scene and not telling a story, which is what I was commenting on.

And its a world with industrial-level technology (not steampunk, but rather some otherworldly version of the 1950's), and technology is constantly developing.

Fair enough.

A typical fantasy world does'nt need a prologue, since most fantasy worlds are just variations of medieval England. The reason why a lot of authors have chosen to include a prologue is often more due to kitsch than to any need for a prologue.

The prologue can have many duties to perform other than scene setting. (But I would agree with you that using a prologue to describe a very clichéd world is wasting everyone's time.)

I thought I needed a prologue, so I wrote one in the form of a excerpt of a school textbook for nine graders there (complete with questions directed at the schoolkids at the end of every part of it). The problem with the prologue was that to explain what happened in 7778, I had to explain what happened in 7777, and then 7768, and then 7765, and then 7757. Twenty-one years might not look as too much in fantasy timelines, but medieval worlds have slower timelines than modern ones.

I agree that this is probably not the best way to start the book.

A reader don't need to read the encyclopedia to understand the world, but she may like to go to the end of the book and look into it. Its not a full encyclopedia, just explanation of some in-world terms, some countries, cultural traits, history and so, as orientation.

Agreed.

I am not dropping the entire world in the first book. That would be extremely endearing both for me and the reader. Rather, I begin softly. The first three chapters are actually introductions to the main characters and their different personalities. And then follows a plot which is more remniscent of a detectiv story/friendship story than an action adventure. The first chapters are actually very introspective, but the reader also gets to see a look of the world.

It is not some kind of world with broken gravity, dragons or wizards either, or a world with parallel dimensions, strange climate, or any of that. But its still a terribly complex world to describe, just because it does'nt fit into a fantasy stereotype. My closest friend has said that it in fact is impossible to classify as fantasy or science fiction, but rather as something entirely different.

Fine.

 

[Dimentio]

This still reads to me like you were planning on spending a lot of time setting the scene and not telling a story, which is what I was commenting on.

I am sorry if I sounded grumpy.

I have been in negotiations with a game developer who seem to think he could reduce my story into some sort of Starcraft-ish action flick, which it is'nt. I guess my irritation just turned on arbitrarily, and for that I am sorry.

I don't know how much action is required at the beginning. The first chapters are deceivingly cute. The two main characters are women. The first of them doesn't want to faint. The second want to find a little place to live in. Thats their initial agendas.

Then comes terrorist plots, mafia connections and domestic violence.

 

[Ursa major]

I am sorry if I sounded grumpy.

I have been in negotiations with a game developer who seem to think he could reduce my story into some sort of Starcraft-ish action flick, which it is'nt. I guess my irritation just turned on arbitrarily, and for that I am sorry.

No problem. (That would make anyone grumpy.)

 

[Dimentio]

I mean, the ugliest thinkable drawing style - after manga - is the typical warcraft figure look, where humans all look like shaved guerillas with grotesquely enormous shoulder pads. Its so damn ugly, unappealing and dorkish so I just want to throw up.

I mean, look at this.

The typical male fashion for upper-class men in my story (during the time-period the storyline is set in), reminds of the style of singer in this video. Military uniforms of the Union Army are somewhat inspired of the German uniforms in WW2.

Its seriously like trying to mixture a brontosaur steak with a sweet fruit pudding.

 

[Culhwch]

A typical fantasy world does'nt need a prologue, since most fantasy worlds are just variations of medieval England. The reason why a lot of authors have chosen to include a prologue is often more due to kitsch than to any need for a prologue.

I take exception to the insinuation that a) most fantasy prologues exist merely to introduce the world and have nothing to do with, say, the story, b) that most fanatsy worlds are 'just variations of medieval England', and c) that authors would include a prologue merely because it's the thing to do. Have you read broadly in the genre? I've read a heap of it (though even so I wouldn't claim to have read particularly broadly) and my experiences are vastly different. To paint an entire genre with the same brush based on a couple of examples - or worse, the general stereotype - is poor form.

Excuse me if I sound grumpy, but I get tired of these kind of assertions.

 

[Kissmequick]

I'm with Culwch here

A prologue is for part of the story that is separated by place / time from the main flow of the story. Fantasy books need them as much as any otehr genre ( sometimes more as an inciting incident may take places centuries before the story proper begins)

It's not for dumping or setting the scene. Neither is the first book. It's all for the story - scene should be set as you go along, imparting world building a little at a time.

So I'm glad you decided not to use the prologue as an info dump, because that isn't what they are for. However it is slightly concerning that you don't feel the reader has enough intelligence to understand your world without a whole book to describe it to them. Authors who think I can't understand their genius without them using a bat to smack it into my head make ME grumpy.

Start with the story. Carry on with the story. End with the story. Show enough of the world that the story makes sense. In world terms and cultures etc should be shown in the story in such a way that the reader knows about them from context. Then the reader won't need the encyclopaedia - but if they liked the story enough, they may want to flick through it at the end.

 

[Dimentio]

I'm with Culwch here

A prologue is for part of the story that is separated by place / time from the main flow of the story. Fantasy books need them as much as any otehr genre ( sometimes more as an inciting incident may take places centuries before the story proper begins)

It's not for dumping or setting the scene. Neither is the first book. It's all for the story - scene should be set as you go along, imparting world building a little at a time.

So I'm glad you decided not to use the prologue as an info dump, because that isn't what they are for. However it is slightly concerning that you don't feel the reader has enough intelligence to understand your world without a whole book to describe it to them. Authors who think I can't understand their genius without them using a bat to smack it into my head make ME grumpy.

Start with the story. Carry on with the story. End with the story. Show enough of the world that the story makes sense. In world terms and cultures etc should be shown in the story in such a way that the reader knows about them from context. Then the reader won't need the encyclopaedia - but if they liked the story enough, they may want to flick through it at the end.

I am using it in the context. The first book is mostly occuring on three places, and I am not trying to use it for a sight-seeing tour in the entire world. If you believe so, you have misinterpreted my intentions. And yes, what you are describing is exactly what I am doing.

But the difference is that I haven't began with creating the story. I began with the world, and the world has existed one decade before I started to write the story. I did not create a world for a story, but a story for a world.

The encyclopaedia itself does not contain all information. It is just containing the information relevant for book 1.

You cannot believe how boring excel documents I have in my possession. I have files with all the kings and leaders historically for all countries and dynasties. I have lists of all election results and the size of different economies.