Cyberpunk vs Steampunk

[Noob1ett]

Story Idea i've been chewing on involves alot of these two cultures, any helpful literature you could suggest is welcome.

so many questions to ask on this subject, but i'll stick with a few (for now at least)

1. Is it possible for both a culture of steampunk and a cyberpunk culture to exist within close proximity of each other? If not, what would be a good distance ( in relative terms) in which they could exist?

2. Can the internal combustion engine exist in any form ( mainly looking to use this for aircraft engines) in a steampunk society?

3. Is there a possibility for cyber and steam to be mixed? or does that defeat the purpose of both cultures? ( I dont have specific examples at this time to put to the test, but its something i'm trying to do if its possible)

 

[Ursa major]

I'm not an expert on either genre, but I saw this quote from Wiki's article on Steampunk:

Steampunk is often associated with cyberpunk and shares a similar fanbase and theme of rebellion, but developed as a separate movement (though both have considerable influence on each other). Apart from time period and level of technological development, the main difference between cyberpunk and steampunk is that steampunk settings usually tend to be less obviously dystopian than cyberpunk, or lack dystopian elements entirely.

As to your specific questions, I can't give specific answers. However, if you want to see an example of steam-powered AI playing a significant rôle, try looking at Perdido Street Station by China Miéville (which is, to be honest, something of a genre grab-bag, but also excellent, IMHO). It certainly has plenty of "dystopian elements".

 

[hectic]

You may also want to take a look at The Diamond Age, which is interesting becuase it is a mish-mash of both interconnected genres but quite specifically rejects AI (a cyberpunk mainstay) as an evolutionary/transcendant mechanism.

 

[Sparrow]

The best example of what I believe you're looking for is The Diamond Age or, A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer by Neal Stephenson.

I think it's classified as post-cyberpunk. That it mixes an almost neo-Victorian aesthetic to cyberpunk/nano-technology gone wild, would also make it steampunk... at least in my book it does.

So yes, not only can cyberpunk and steampunk exist together, they can be mixed like cake batter.

And in case you're curious, The Diamond Age is an excellent book. One of the best reads I've come across in the last ten years.

 

[hectic]

Great minds...

 

[Sparrow]

... yes indeed!

I'll add that The Diamond Age has an interesting balance between overreaching government and cyberpunk rebellion.

 

[HareBrain]

2. Can the internal combustion engine exist in any form ( mainly looking to use this for aircraft engines) in a steampunk society?

People have difficulty defining Steampunk, let alone a "steampunk society". So if you want to have internal combustion engines, why not? The cultures in your story don't have to fit some arbitrary definition suggested by previously published works.

 

[Sapheron]

You're not trying to write a steam/cyberpunk story by finding out the rules first, are you? If you are, I'd advise writing the story how you want and working out which one (or both, or neither) it is at the end.

Anywho. In my mind, cyberpunk is punks with advanced technology. Steampunk is punks with less advanced technology than we have today (though it's still often capable of more somehow). I think that's about as technical as I'd bother getting with definitions.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Here is a book that should be of interest The Difference Engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , generally regarded, I believe, as a classic in the genre, combining steampunk with computers,
and making it work, because it's based on an actual Victorian computer:
Analytical engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Toby Frost]

As someone whose books have been called steampunk by some and not by others, I'm not sure I am particularly bothered by precise definitions. My own British Space Empire is Victorian in outlook but includes computers and nuclear power - the difference for me is in the characters and the overall look and feel. I'm not terribly worried about stepping over a line of steampunk/not steampunk so long as the world I've made for the characters keeps its integrity.

When writing in a genre (or indeed doing anything in a genre) there will always be some who see it as their duty to guard the gates, ie to exclude what doesn't fit in perfectly. This can be good, but it can also be stifling. Frankly I suspect that no matter what you do there will be someone who has issues.

As to whether there has to be a "punk" element (anarchy, rebellion and so on) I'd say no. The term "steampunk" was effectively coined as a joke on "cyberpunk" and doesn't necessarily include this.

 

[Granfalloon]

One area you might look into that could lend ideas to this kind of story:

Rube Goldberg machine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[goldhawk]

As someone whose books have been called steampunk by some and not by others, I'm not sure I am particularly bothered by precise definitions. My own British Space Empire is Victorian in outlook but includes computers and nuclear power - the difference for me is in the characters and the overall look and feel. I'm not terribly worried about stepping over a line of steampunk/not steampunk so long as the world I've made for the characters keeps its integrity.

Jules Verne has nuclear power in Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea. Computers are relatively new. Consider having mechanical men instead.

When writing in a genre (or indeed doing anything in a genre) there will always be some who see it as their duty to guard the gates, ie to exclude what doesn't fit in perfectly. This can be good, but it can also be stifling. Frankly I suspect that no matter what you do there will be someone who has issues.

As to whether there has to be a "punk" element (anarchy, rebellion and so on) I'd say no. The term "steampunk" was effectively coined as a joke on "cyberpunk" and doesn't necessarily include this.

Call it Gaslight Fantasy instead.

 

[chrispenycate]

As I see it (and I'm not in anyway an expert) the real distinction between the heavy engineering of steampunk, and the equally heavy of thirties space opera, is the absence of electricity as a motive force. If you want a thermostat, you do it with a brass rod in a ceramic tube, geared up mechanically to cut your fuel flow. Thus the internal combustion engine, relying as it does on spark plugs, is going to need a drastic rethink. Flint and steel in the pistons? Diesel is acceptable, if you don't use an electric starter; there used to be a tractor you could start by putting a sort of shotgun cartridge into the cylinder and hitting it with a hammer.

Cyberpunk relies heavily on computer power, and while I would love to try and get a parallel processor Babbage engine up to virtual reality speeds, this would not be a mass produced home calculator but an enormous, government-funded monstrosity (imagine trying to do a colour screen mechanically.)

So getting the two to coexist is an interesting challenge.

But as far as I can tell the only reason for these sub-sub-categories is to announce to the fans of some already famous author that you've copied him… (waits for the fruit to stop falling). My dragons are taking to the introduction of steam with immense fortitude, and considerable distaste (when you can expect to see your five hundredth birthday you get accustomed to the imperfections of human progress).

 

[thatollie]

You might think this post is rather anti-intellectual, but bear with me.

Focus on the characters and the conflict/story. The better those elements are, the less people will notice if you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Ursa major]

Not an original thought, but:

If a book is well written, has an interesting story and engaging characters, and induces the requisite degree of disbelief-suspension, most readers will ignore (or forgive, or even welcome and/or hail) genre boundary-crossing.

On the other hand, no-one (well, few readers) will forgive poor writing, a hackneyed plot, cardboard characters and being ripped from the narrative by glaring errors, however careful the author has been about sticking to a sub-genre formula.


If boundaries have been crossed, you can always have blurb along the lines of "a ground-breaking and masterly combination of steampunk, autobiography and chick-lit" () to cover your back.

 

[goldhawk]

Cyberpunk relies heavily on computer power, and while I would love to try and get a parallel processor Babbage engine up to virtual reality speeds, this would not be a mass produced home calculator but an enormous, government-funded monstrosity (imagine trying to do a colour screen mechanically.)

Are you sure this isn't Retro-futurism?

 

[goldhawk]

On the other hand, no-one (well, few readers) will forgive poor writing, a hackneyed plot, cardboard characters and being ripped from the narrative by glaring errors, however careful the author has been about sticking to a sub-genre formula.

Unless It's So Bad, It's Good.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Jules Verne has nuclear power in Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea. Computers are relatively new.

Well, Babbage was working on his computer in the 1830's, about 30 years before Verne wrote Twenty Thousand Leagues.

The better those elements are, the less people will notice if you have no idea what you're talking about.

You can't count on that, however. Many readers will stop reading the moment we get the idea that the writer has no idea what he/she is talking about, or if we do keep reading we will continually be thrown outside the world of the book whenever that suspicion returns, spoiling the excellent plot and engaging characters.

I can't see any benefit to not having all the elements working, including those that encourage the suspension of disbelief. Why would an author want to be lazy and not put in the effort to gain the trust of all his or her readers?

Worrying about fitting the book into a specific sub-genre is another matter entirely. That's just unnecessary.

 

[The Judge]

On the other hand, no-one (well, few readers) will forgive poor writing, a hackneyed plot, cardboard characters and being ripped from the narrative by glaring errors, however careful the author has been about sticking to a sub-genre formula.

It seems to work for Dan Brown...

J

 

[Sparrow]

... ain't that the truth.

I read The Da Vinci Code before it broke big and thought little of it again. It seems the Quest for the Holy Grail genre still has legs.

When a writer recruits the likes of Leonardo da Vinci and Sir Isaac Newton as champions of feminism, well, something has gone mightily wrong. Not only were both men probably gay, neither thought very much of women. Certainly not as equals.