not a fan of Stanis but.....

[Rfred]

I'm purely guessing here but I'm thinking the sparrows will proclaim Stanis king of westeros. They seem to be on a truely righteous kick imprisoning both queens and all. I'm guessing they may attempt to follow the true lines of inheritance and proclaim stanis. Of course there is that whole worshiping of Rholor problem but I think they will at least attempt to sway him back to the traditional gods.

I doubt Stannis would be receptive though leading me to think that the sparrows would then declare one of Roberts bastards. This would explain why martin has developed some of these lesser characters to the extent that he has. King Gendry? King Edric storm? The prospect of Gendry leading an army of sparrows against Stannis or the others is far fetched but rather amuseing. Also it woulgive Arya someone to work for once she gets back and starts shanking everyone who looks at her funny. (Not that she can see them or anything)

 

[TK-421]

Interesting premise.

We have discussed the Sparrows, Stannis and who will inherit the Iron Throne at length but never together.

There are two MAJOR problems with this idea:

1) That "whole worshiping of R'holor problem" is a bigger one than you may think. That would be like the Roman Catholic Church saying that the Dalai Lama is a pretty stand-up guy so let's name him the next Pope regardless of whether he is Catholic or not.

2) Stannis will be dead by the end of ADWD.

But, it still isn't an idea we should reject completely and anything's possible in GRRM's world.

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

Hi Rfred & welcome to chronicles!
Interesting idea but I think the sparrows are more than happy to have a "child king" to control and mould. Tommen puts me in the mind of King Richard II of England, although slightly younger, with the High Septon in the position of John of Gaunt. The High Septon must be licking his lips at the though of "advising" King Tommen, who would certainly be easier to instruct than Stannis.

And as TK pointed out, this whole "R'hllor thing" is a massive impediment. Stannis is probably viewed as an apostate by the High Septon and he seems zealous enough to actively 'excommunicate' him and order his death rather than ask him to rule.
I also think that bastardisation would be unpalatable to the High Septon, except as a very last resort, although as he now knows about Cersei's infidelity that's obviously something he can get over to get what he wants.

 

[Clansman]

WS, from what I read at the end of AFFC, the new High Septon does not appear to be the same kind of worldly priest of the ilk of the medieval Popes (like Innocent III). He appears very much to be a Calvinist-like reformer, stripping the church of its wealth and using that wealth for good works and outreach. He does not appear, at first glance anyway, to be willing to sacrifice his values to wade into the realpolitik of Westeros, at least not in the way that his predecessor did. His steps into the political battle may be great stomps of righteous indignation at what has gone before. The sparrows, who elevated this lowly priest to high office, were created by the bloody conflicts. It will be interesting to see if the new High Septon has to sell out in order to get things done...

GRRM may have finally signalled a turn. The new High Septon just might be a virtuous church man, who is not seeking power for his own ends. But who really knows?

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

WS, from what I read at the end of AFFC, the new High Septon does not appear to be the same kind of worldly priest of the ilk of the medieval Popes (like Innocent III). He appears very much to be a Calvinist-like reformer, stripping the church of its wealth and using that wealth for good works and outreach. He does not appear, at first glance anyway, to be willing to sacrifice his values to wade into the realpolitik of Westeros, at least not in the way that his predecessor did. His steps into the political battle may be great stomps of righteous indignation at what has gone before. The sparrows, who elevated this lowly priest to high office, were created by the bloody conflicts. It will be interesting to see if the new High Septon has to sell out in order to get things done...

GRRM may have finally signalled a turn. The new High Septon just might be a virtuous church man, who is not seeking power for his own ends. But who really knows?

I agree with most of your points, Clansman but I just reach a different conclusion with the new High Septon. Yes he is much less of a politician than his predecessors in that he is much, much less willing to compromise his spiritual beliefs to curry favour. He does strike me as similar to the zeal of the Calvinist reformers or Puritans a bit later on. It's what he does with his power which interests me though. His faith and virtue lead him to be extremely unforgiving of those who he deems as having achieved a lesser standard. He sees the decline in influence and power of the church as directly attributable to what followed on and restoring that power is the logical way to "restart" a more moral society. In his arming of the sparrows has also recreated the militant wing so that he can enforce his viewpoint against those dissenters who see him as a threat to their own power and influence (hello Cersei!).

I suppose it's a case of replacing a High Septon who did "sell out" to gain concessions (however small) from the ruling class with someone who will extract concessions from the rack and blade. It remains to be seen whether that'll work out any better for him though! He may gain approbation from those who share his beliefs and who are sickened with the decadence and callousness shown by the Throne during it's bloody civil wars, but for those who don't share those beliefs (Northmen/Some Valemen/Ironborn/Some Dornish) it's likely to be one form of oppression replaced by another. And this one you can't even bargain with.

You could argue that the new High Septon is on a par with Melissandre as both feel the righteousness of their cause and see no value in any other. Melissandre burned the churchs of the Seven (and its followers like Lord Sunglass!) and will likely try to attempt the same to the godswoods of the North. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see similar actions come from the High Septon, with followers of R'hllor or Free Cities religions killed and their properties/assets seized by him.

And in response to your final point, I guess we'll see! Maybe he is Baelor the Blessed returns...I just think he's more like the slightly madder Targaryens!

 

[TK-421]

Yes, Dany would probably more to his liking, although he may not like the fact that Dany would not stand for the Church having the power it now has in Westeros. She does not strike me as the type to share power. She is a Targ after all.

 

[Pentagathus]

The new High Septon isn't highborn, neither are his sparrows, so it wouldn't surprise me if he sympathised with bastards.

 

[Rfred]

I'm by no means suggesting any of this would work out. But I believe this new head of church will attempt to recognize stanis(key word being attempt). He seems to possess the blind strive for justice that made the church militant so feared and hard to put down in the first place. I wouldn't put it past him to declare dany the rightful hier to westeros.
That begs the question what was the religious atmosphere in westeros at the time of roberts rebellion? Obviosly the church didn't have an army at the time but who's to say whom they recognized as the rightful heir?
Also who's to say Stannis wouldn't go along with the church if they proclaimed him ruler? Its not like he has a problem changing his stripes to better his position.
Ah well either way he will probably be dead soon. Either fed to the flames, killed by jon snow or reanimated as a champion for the others.

 

[Rfred]

Oh and king tommen will most definately be removed in some unseemly fashion sooner than later. Being that he is now, in the eyes of the church, most assuredly an abomination against god, a unholy product of incest.

 

[IlliferThePenniless]

It'll be sad to see Tommen go, but Jaime can't strangle her until all their kids are dead. So each dead Lannister child brings us closer to that happy moment when we'll bid adieu to the lovely Queen Cersei.

Rfred- I just don't see how a militantly religious head sparrow is going to overlook the fact that Stannis burned The Seven and has embraced a false god. I think that in the sparrow's mind any legitimate claim Stannis may have had went out the window when he embraced the Red Woman.

 

[Ursa major]

Doesn't it depend on who the head sparrow is...


* waits for a dozen posts telling me precisely who he is *


...and what his true intentions are?