where is the gritty realism in fantasy ?

[Fred C. Dobbs]

First I tried ursulsa Le Guin and enjoyed it up to a point but rather came crashing down to earth in the first earthsea book when the central character faced with a dragon simply turned into a dragon himself. I persevered and finished the book but the damage was done.

I was very excited about fritz lieber but having come to the end of the second compilation find him very similar to Le Guin - just too many inexplicable situations resolved by fantastic coincidence.

I love strange worlds and creatures but there must be an author that has managed to portray a world that the reader can truely believe in.

 

[biodroid]

I don't know if that will manifest itself to you as fantasy is just that, fantasy. I reckon look at Tad Williams - War of the Flowers very good urban dark fantasy. Maybe somone else has a better suggestion. I am moving off fantasy as I feel it's too much the same old same old. Try Brent Weeks (big fan am I...hmmm) about assassins and the crap the main character puts up with is just gut wrenching tear jerking stuff. Very good stuff.

 

[thepaladin]

For "gritty realism" in a heroic vein try David Gemmell. Most any of his reads, try Legend first possibly. Gemmell is one of my favorite writers.

For simple "gritty realism" blood, dirt, death, and a sense you almost feel the heat and smeel the carnage try Glen Cook's Black Company books. The best of what they are.

 

[thepaladin]

Sorry that should be "smell" not "smeel"...typo, again...sigh.

 

[The Ace]

Of course, if it's a pure body-count you want, try GRRM.

 

[nixie]

You Could also try Joe Abercombie's , First Law trilogy and his stand alone Best Served Cold. Then there is Steven Erikson's Malazan Books of the Fallen series, reels you in and leaves you wanting more.

 

[Fred C. Dobbs]

Thanks I will certainly try erikson and also abercrombie - the others I might wiki and research a bit more. Also I didn't really word my initial post very well. Obviously fantasy is fantasy, maybe I am looking for a world which captivated me as much as narnia & middle earth as a youngster - or maybe fantasy is just a bridge too far for me and I should search out more post apocalyptic fiction. Somehow I know there is fantasy out there which will strike a chord...

ps - gemmell sounds good but what about terry brooks ? I should point out that tolkein is the closest I've come to fantasy which really got the juices flowing.

 

[nixie]

Terry Brooks, a lot of people say the Sword of Shannara is a rip of of Tolkien.Have to say I never noticed. Although not the best writer I find Brooks entertaining, a light read, easy to follow and interesting enough to keep you reading.I'd say slightly above average.

 

[j d worthington]

I would also suggest trying out some of the older, classic fantasy writers, pre-Tolkien's popularity. Those who followed older models of storytelling were nonetheless often very individual, and quite a few created worlds which were quite detailed and "realistic" in various ways; magic was often used more subtly (if at all -- see Mervyn Peake, for example); and the quest involving a magical talisman or object of power (as we know it) was used rather less frequently. Even James Branch Cabell's fantasies either use fantasy much less, or in a more subtle fashion (generally speaking); albeit in books of an ironic and satirical cast (nonetheless brilliantly and wittily written).

Some, such as Fletcher Pratt, with his Well of the Unicorn and The Blue Star, have a much more complex world which is quite "gritty realism", with all the moral ambiguities and lack of easy answers of real history (in Pratt's case, this is partly because he was an historian -- one of America's best Civil War historians, in fact). Then there's always the "Lost Race Fantasy" of writers such as H. Rider Haggard, et al.....

There are, of course, quite a few modern writers who also write fantasy of this stripe, but I'll leave suggestions on those to others more knowledgeable.

Here's an essay by the late Lin Carter (with footnotes by Jessica Amanda Salmonson), which will give you more information on the "lost race" tales:

Violet Books: Forgotten Cities

Basically, as I've argued before, fantasy is a many-flavored beastie, and there are plenty of the sorts of thing you seem to be looking for... just not necessarily in the places you're looking....

 

[Connavar]

For gritty more older fantasy i recommend Robert.E Howard stories,heroes like Conan,Bran Mak Morn,Solomon Kane.

Try any of the things recommended in this thread there are many different sides to what you are looking for in fantasy.

 

[dustinzgirl]

I have to second the notions of Gemmel and Howard. Those are all good gritty fantasy books.

 

[murphy]

I'll second the recommendation for George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series. Very good books. Start with A Game of Thrones.

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

Gritty realism in fantasy.


If you want any kind of realism whatsoever-assuming fantasy is going to have some sort of magic involved-you actually can't go wrong with Piers Anthony's Incarnations of Immortality series. Takes place in the modern real world with modern technology and modern problems-at least, most of it does. There's a lot of time spamming, and don't let the titles fool you, there's plenty of realism mixed in.


Simply put, it can really only be called religious urban fantasy as the story aspects center around avatars of deity incarnations.


It's my favorite book series ever, but I try to actually avoid "gritty realism" in fantasy, or indeed, any realism at all. If I wanted reality I would read mystery crime dramas, not fantasy. Though I have to say, I would NOT recommend Brooks, his quality of writing plummeted horribly after The Sword of Shannara. He loves to be a major time-spanner and character killer. I couldn't lift another Shannara book after The Voyage of the Jerle Shannara, and I couldn't even look at another Brooks piece of work happily whatsoever after Armageddon's Children.

 

[woodsman]

For grit I think Glen Cook is a difficult one to beat.

Realism, I would tend towards G.R.R.Martin although the later books loose a little of this feel there are very few 'miracle cures' if you will.

 

[JDP]

Yep, A Song of Ice and Fire by George R R Martin is awesome for gritty realism in fantasy. Also would recommend China Mieville's Perdido Street Station for something a little steampunky. Mieville manages to make some pretty whacky concepts seem real/feasible.

 

[Culhwch]

Obviously fantasy is fantasy...

Respectfully, no it ain't. The varied suggestions in this thread alone demonstrate that.

 

[Fred C. Dobbs]

Thanks to everyone who replied. I recently saw the complete conan chronicles in a charity shop so I will go back and pick that up. I have seen piers anthony and I know it's crazy but the front covers put me off !!!!!

I havent given up on Le Guin either and have bought the dispossessed as it mentioned it was rather a departure from earthsea. I also finished the third fahred and grey mouser collection last night and although the actual writing isn't great the ideas and concepts are fascinating and I did find myself growing into the characters.

Also, thanks to everyone who recommended modern authors such as mieville - he is on the list but I want to finish my apprenticeship first and I want to begin with more classic examples of the genre.

Any shouts for the elric books ?

 

[Fried Egg]

Some, such as Fletcher Pratt, with his Well of the Unicorn and The Blue Star, have a much more complex world which is quite "gritty realism", with all the moral ambiguities and lack of easy answers of real history (in Pratt's case, this is partly because he was an historian -- one of America's best Civil War historians, in fact).

Funny, I was just thinking of suggesting "Well of the Unicorn", which is in particular focus because I'm reading it right now.

Also, if one is looking for quite a rational approach to magic, one might consider Lawrence Watt Evans who often likes to explore the practical implications of magic employed that most writers just gloss over. "The Misenchanted Sword" is a great book and his "Lords of Dus" series is also quite interesting in this regard.

Any shouts for the elric books ?

I would have no hesitation abour recommending the Elric books generally but I wouldn't really call them "nitty-gritty realistic". They are quite surreal and abstract, whilst being dark and brooding.

 

[GOLLUM]

Any shouts for the elric books ?

Yes I would say they are well worth your pursuing as is a lot by Moorcock. Somethig of an antihero where things don't always turn out for the best.

J.D has been collecting the recent Elric sequence by Del Rey. From what I've seen these are really excellent publications beautifully illustrated. They contain essays, additional material etc... revolving around Moorcock's theme of the Etrenal Champion which pervades a significant amount of his work as well of course the Elric stories. Del Rey have also put out the fantastic Robert E Howard edns. featuring the collected fiuction of several of his key charatrcers incl. Connan The Barbarian. I can highly recomend those to you.

Anyway, he and others will be able to proivide you with a more definitive answer but that hopefully gives you some idea.

Cheers...

 

[GOLLUM]

Funny, I was just thinking of suggesting "Well of the Unicorn", which is in particular focus because I'm reading it right now.

Is that the Victor Gollancz Fantasy Masterwork edition? Just curious is all.