Where am I going wrong in this... too much backstory or not enough?

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flickimp

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Hi

Chapter 3 has been mucked around with, for the last 3 months...

It needs to tell some of the history of the world without revealing too much.

Each time I rewrite it, it feels like I am over-narrating, and then when I take parts out, it feels weak...

Please advise on grammar, commas, too much detail , not enough, boring, exciting...

This is a 2100 word extract, so apologies if that's too long...

Is there anyone out there that lives in Leicester UK? Be great to meet up to discuss ideas/advice.

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Chapter Three

Bed Mountains, suitably named for their low peaks and weathered slopes was not fitting for horse-driven carriages. Held firm by thick wooden beams and crafted stone blocks, the carved tunnels that ran through would save any passer from crossing over. For his army, carrying precious cargo back through the Mayurasin Forest to the tunnel would take considerable time, not withstanding the risk of sudden shocks.

Anguished as he was, Feli’op agreed for his warriors to aid the soldiers in beating a path to the West of the Forest, leading to the shoreline. A longer path to reach the opposite side of Bed Mountains.

Several trees had been felled around the Relic to protect bystanders from the volatile shakes that had lessened. The four horses from the first carriage were fastened to join the four on the second carriage, as the structure was dismantled and restructured to make a contained box. Spears from the Mayuri tribe and iron pikes from the soldier’s supplies, networked across the entirety of the box to provide a barrier from slippages.

Prayers were offered by the Mayuri people at the scarred land left by the removal of the Relic. Only the movement of the carriages and the marching of the soldiers could be heard for some time until they reached the shore, as if the priest had granted them safe passage away from their home.

The Relic-carrying carriage had swayed around the coast with the Bed Mountains lingering above earlier that morning. The horses did not agree with the tide or the seaweed covered shore, much to the amusement of some of the pushing soldiers.

“Neigh as much as you want!” teased one large soldier. “Cleaning this sand from my armour will be just as much fun!” He longed for respite and some brew, knowing they were half a day from the town.

Jerked by the Relic shaking, the horses kicked at the sand. Some of the soldiers backed away from the carriage; then resumed their positions.

Standing close; keeping guard, Rodri tapped his sword against the spears of the box. None had shifted. Their craftsmanship was standing up to the temperament of the enclosed. He motioned for the carriage to continue moving onto more stable ground.

“Do you think it is one of them?” whispered one soldier pushing the carriage.

“He said not to speak of it,” replied the soldier next to him, elbowing him in the helmet.

Letting the wind wave his long hair, Edominus walked ahead of the soldiers, commanding each step across the flourishing land towards Neh-Water. Thirteen days had passed since the King’s Council ordered the gathering of soldiers to inspect the Forest. Chosen for his trustworthy nature, Edominus had made haste, questioning little of the need to travel away from the ongoing attacks by the Eastern Mountains. He hoped to hear some words of victory from the forts along Sword Ridge.

Almost a year to the day, the first wave of new onslaughts began. The Belitas were barbaric and bloodthirsty; allied with the skilled weaponry of the more human-shaped Nakit, they were improving tactically and deceitfully. Edominus had been present when then navigated the ocean of Sinking Islands, but failed to capitalise. Barely known before, the nimble Nakit could penetrate the ranks of soldier, often disguising themselves as soldiers of Hazhindor. More hygienic and vocally adept at speaking than the larger Belitas made them hard to spot. Defence along the coast to the Sinking-Islands remained in the form of spring-loaded traps and fire-loading trebuchet forts.

Now the beasts of the East sought to pierce the forts along Sword Ridge. Fortune was it that the Northern and Southern lands were higher in altitude made detection of oncoming strikes from the East, effortlessly countered. Except the beasts had adapted. Uncovering ruined catapults from the unoccupied old ruins of Datindor in the North-East, progressed the archaic nature of the Belitas. They were improving day by day.

Why do they attack us? Was the question Edominus asked when joining the ranks of those that could pay their way to be versed in the literature of the Scholars Guild in Hazhindor.

To conquer the world.

Despite this not being entirely true, it was the appropriate notion pronounced by the King’s Council to be held by the Northern and Southern lands. Edominus knew more.

Paused by the sight of a ginger cat jumping down from a nearby tree, Edominus was reminded of the murky past that had once covered the world.

Opinion and evidence differed greatly as to the order of events, with thoughts of manipulation and intended half-truths sickening amongst the Scholar’s Guild. The King followed the majority that believed in the world being a place for men and his kind to reap and live, carving new corners and ridding the land of the dismal outcasts that differed in appearance. Impurity had affected men in an era long forgotten and gave them the unwanted appearance of the beasts as they came to be known. It was popular belief their exile to the East was forced upon them to allow mankind to grow pure. Resenting exile; longing for revenge, the beasts strive to invade; choosing every opportunity they found. A hundred years ago they came close.

Lord Ightar rose from the opposite mountains of Traitor Peaks. Intellectually superior; matchless in demeanour and mysterious; he removed the leaders of clans in the Beastlands until they knelt to his decree.

Ravaging the once strong fortress of Datindor with control of the Belitas race, Ightar hunted relentlessly; haste drive his crushing horde over Sword Ridge towards the newly united kingdom of Hazhindor, under strict rule by the then King; Reneoden. Calling to arms the Southern kingdom of Raichguard and survivors of Datindor, the King clashed with the might of Ightar along the Eastern Mountains in what came to be known as the Great War of Blood.

From far the west side of the mountains surged red for five days with neither side retreating; and then the tide turned and an likely form of help came to the aid of Hazhindor. The chasms in the centre of the Eastern Mountains descend below the surface; said to be haunted by ancient creatures of the world saw a large group of hope come up to retaliate against Ightar.

Forty cats, varying breeds; small and large; athletic; observant; incautious, came over from the chasms as if the world had answered the worrying call of man, woman and child. Bearing talents of breathing fire, suffocating winds, icicle projectiles and shaking the land beneath our feet, the mystifying cats swarmed down and weakened Ightar’s grip on our land. Surrounding him many poured onto his flesh, tearing at him, letting his anger seep out till his final breath. Sworn to serve Hazhindor, King Reneoden accepted the might of the Elemental-Cats and drove the remaining beasts back to their parasitic lands.

Edominus had heard from the minority of scholars that one of the Elemental-Cats had confronted Ightar in conversation during the last battle of the mountains. Strider, a black Elemental-Cat summoned some of the cats to sacrifice their lives with him to bring down the evil lord. Cloud Peak on the mountain was destroyed when the cats released a blinding display of blue light, believed to be combination of their powers. Both groups of scholars did agree on Ightar’s fate.

Soldiers and cats came down from the mountain, surviving the implosion of Cloud Peak, telling of Ightar’s body merging with the cats and soldiers to be reduced to a cocoon of rock and iron; splitting into four even pieces that vanished forthwith.

The beasts from the East were searching for the four pieces. For them, to conquer the world, they would have to bring back Ightar.

Twenty years after the Great War, three pieces of Ightar’s tomb were discovered; two along the Eastern Mountain; one buried in Sword Ridge, they became known as the Relics. Reneoden, suffering ill-health made clear to his son Prince Copilus and the recently appointed Council that the discovery of the Relics was to be kept hidden from the people of the Kingdom for fear of concern that the tomb was holding Ightar temporarily. Now they had the final piece; the forth Relic.

The Relics vanished for a reason, thought Edominus. Surely the scholars will tread carefully. Is this a key to restart the Great War again?

Edominus felt Rodri’s pat along his back. Unlike his leader, Rodri had never seen the three Relics residing deep within the confines of Hazhindor. Raised from the poor district he had resented the wealthier folk of the [ADD CITY NAME] city. Until, his moment of glory. Sneaking into the gladiatorial trials at the royal garrison, he outperformed the cadets and earned his place in the army. A young sergeant then, Edominus took to employing the young rogue.

“You show concern on your brow, Centurion.” Said Rodri.

“And you do not?” replied Edominus.

“The last Relic,” said Rodri holding his hands in the air as they continued walking. “The finest memory of a hundred years ago will finally be the King’s. And then what will happen? Will it simple slot with the other three and stop shaking? Or does it shake because it holds a dark secret inside that waits to escape?”

“Rodri,” said Edominus shaking his finger. “Ightar is dead. The Relics must be kept hidden from the Beastlands, or they will use it as a means to strengthen their forces against us. If they had sight of a Relic, they would march as one straight through Hazhindor.” He looked back at the carriage that had stopped again. “We hold the Relic; We hold Hazhindor’s grip.”

Seven soldiers followed the pace of Inmas; running way ahead of the soldiers; keeping watch for the descendents of the Belitas, the Beltosi. Just as rugged and rough in outlook, though smaller and expert in tunnelling. Some time after the Great War, the Beltosi had dispersed them-selves within Hazhindor, behaving as bandits and skirmishing with those they hated. Always moving; always hidden. Each year, several scout parties would embark from the larger villages bringing back trophies of Beltosi bodies, yet always passing tale of how the Beltosi were increasing in number and strategy. Each hair that flowed from the helmets of Inmas and Rodri were reminders of invaders they had eradicated.

Inmas was forever known as the masked blades-man. Never removing his helmet unless in private; hunting silently and pouncing with accuracy like a cat; this young adult swore devout allegiance to Hazhindor. He admired Edominus and often loathed Rodri’s cynicism. The seven soldiers were deeply honoured to be in his presence.

He grabbed a soldier’s long-bow; pulled back an arrow and waited. The soldiers followed his aim and peered out towards the long grasses that led to the reeds amongst the streams. Then, they saw a scruffy clothed man holding his hat as he ran with a fishing rod over his shoulder.

Counting each advance made by the man, then moving his aim further away to the right, Inmas released the arrow; lowered the bow; then signalled for three of the soldiers to inspect the man as he dropped; arrow straight through his neck.

Waving his wide-bladed sword, known as Splitter; forged by the iron-smiths of Trow Town, Inmas sent blades of grass into the air; then sheathed his sword when the three returned dragging a green-skinned Beltosi man. He cut one strand of hair from the Beltosi.

“We wait for the others.” Said Inmas, giving doubt to the soldier’s thoughts. Did he mean the arriving soldiers or more Beltosi?

“Stand back!” shouted Edominus as the Relic carrying carriage slanted lifting one side off the ground sending two soldiers onto their backs. Numerous soldiers jumped up to bring the carriage down onto all four wheels.

“Let go!” ordered Rodri as the Relic shook for a fifth time in succession. The distressed horses state of confusion made matters worse. Three horses tried to gallop, knocking into the other that stood still while flanked by guarding soldiers.

The shaking stopped. The soldiers anxiously looked at one another, unsure if another shock would occur or if they had ceased briefly. Rodri looked back at Edominus with a cautious eye and said, “We only hold Hazhindor’s grip for as long as that thing allows us.”

“Steady the carriage and check it’s state,” said Edominus. “We are close to Neh-Water. Make haste.”

Rodri clapped his hands and gestured the fallen soldiers to regain their composure. Edominus reached under his armour and pulled out a small bound book with a pen attached by thread. He looked back at the previous page and read to his latest entry.

Day 1 – Making fit the carriage for movement of the Relic; 3 Minor Trembles
Day 2 – Negotiating around Bed Mountains; 1 Minor
Day 3 – Approaching Neh-Water; 1 Minor, 5 Major

He turned to the map where he had marked each tremble. It trembles more as we approach the town, he thought.
 
rather too long for much more than a quick skim at this hour, but parts of the mass of exposition in the middle of the piece could be threaded into dialogue.

otherwise, think about how much detail could be spared for a more relevant chapter.
The beasts from the East were searching for the four pieces. For them, to conquer the world, they would have to bring back Ightar.

Twenty years after the Great War, three pieces of Ightar’s tomb were discovered; two along the EasternMountain; one buried in Sword Ridge, they became known as the Relics. Reneoden, suffering ill-health made clear to his son Prince Copilus and the recently appointed Council that the discovery of the Relics was to be kept hidden from the people of the Kingdom for fear of concern that the tomb was holding Ightar temporarily. Now they had the final piece; the forth Relic.
the important parts here are that three Relics have already been found, and that this one is the fourth. after stating that, you can mention the fear that now Ightar might return. the rest is padding that can be used to colour another chapter (eg: "My father never wanted this knowledge revealed!" Copilus hissed angrily. "That was his greatest fear and his dying wish! And I will keep this secret!" - apologies for taking liberties with your characters, purely illustrative use intended...)


i don't know about leicester, but up here in sheff there wasn't any sff writers groups until we started one. speak to the libraries to see if you can advertise, and start one yourself if they don't know of anything?
 
I'll have to weave some speech between the backstory narrative. Rodri could give the minority view and edominus the majority view.

I am finding that my chapters are averaging 2000 words ... And I can't see myself doing more than 35-40

In terms of publishing is 80k a reasonable number or should I go lower/higher? Wouldn't want to write a 100k book and then get told to reduce it by 20k
 
80k is a bit on the low side given today's market, but then again it's a reasonable figure for the YA market, i think. the only constant will be that you will have to change/add/remove stuff if you get taken on for publication.
 
In terms of publishing is 80k a reasonable number or should I go lower/higher? Wouldn't want to write a 100k book and then get told to reduce it by 20k

That's reasonable for a YA novel, but if it is meant for adult readers and you are planning on submitting to US or UK publishers, you should go much higher.

Too long an extract for me to comment on the entire thing, however, I agree with chopper that a lot of this detail should be worked in to other chapters where relevant. The parts you keep would be more interesting if you filtered them through the reactions and emotions of your POV character. You take a long time establishing Edominus as that character -- in fact, there is a fair bit of head-hopping and that's not good -- and even then he comes across as too detached. I don't mean that he should lapse into melodrama, but he just doesn't seem invested enough in what is happening, and although you mention some of the discomforts of the journey, he never seems to feel them personally. If he did, the reader could feel them along with him.

Also, watch out for sentences like this:

Counting each advance made by the man, then moving his aim further away to the right, Inmas released the arrow; lowered the bow; then signalled for three of the soldiers to inspect the man as he dropped; arrow straight through his neck.

Too many semicolons, and not all of them used correctly. I think this comes of trying to cram too much into one sentence. The problem is not that it's a long sentence, but that it contains too many separate actions. It sounds like he lowers his bow and gestures his men to come forward and inspect the man as he is falling. (A good trick if they can do it.) It might work better if you wrote in more like this:

Counting each advance made by the man, Inmas adjusted his aim further to the right, then released the arrow. The man dropped. Inmas lowered his bow and signalled for three of the soldiers to inspect the fallen man. The shaft had gone straight through the neck.

Except for a couple of words, I have simply moved your own words around, but I think it reads smoother my way.

(I said "adjusted" his aim, because "moving it away" made it sound like he was aiming past the man.)

And sentences like this:

Prayers were offered by the Mayuri people at the scarred land left by the removal of the Relic.

You could improve that sentence by removing the verb "to be" and making the Mayuri the subject, rather than the prayers:

Appalled [or appropriate reaction] by the scar left upon the land, the Mayuri offered prayers.

or two sentences:

Removing the relic had left a deep scar on the land. The Mayuri people offered prayers.

The way you have it, the prayers sort of passively happen. My way, somebody does something.

Look for other instances throughout where you do the same sort of thing. For instance:

The four horses from the first carriage were fastened to join the four on the second carriage, as the structure was dismantled and restructured to make a contained box. Spears from the Mayuri tribe and iron pikes from the soldier’s supplies, networked across the entirety of the box to provide a barrier from slippages.

You have a whole sequence of things happening, but you don't show anybody doing them. It doesn't really give an impression of activity, although there must be a great deal of activity involved.

As it is, I don't actually know who is doing what, but here is an example of how it might be worded (supposing I have the actors right):

Soldiers unhitched the horses from the first carriage and fastened them to join the four on the second.* A larger group dismantled the structure and reassembled it as a contained box. The Mayuri tribe offered their spears, and the soldiers produced pikes from their supplies, which they wove into a network across the entirety of the box, as a barrier against slippages.


*I'm not sure a carriage would be structured so that you could just add on horses like that. Probably someone who knows more about these things than I do will be along soon to say whether this is likely.
 
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IMHO, you're trying too hard. You've squeezed the fun out of it.

Take a deep breath, set this part of tale aside for a month or two, then re-write it as two or even *three* chapters, with a lot more of the extensive exposition revealed by dialogue & witnessed actions.
 
As it has been mentioned in this post.... what are the benchmarks in terms fo wordcount for a new, unpublished writer? Are publisher more wary of using ink than they would be with a household name?

When do you draw the line between a YA and an Adult audience?
Does fights ending in death take you into adult story telling, or is it only when their is extreme violence?
 
Death is fine in YA stuff. I think it's just graphic sex and extreme language you can't have.
 
Go to the library and check out a lot of YA books, flickimp. (And read them of course.) The children's librarian can help you, if you are in any doubt. That is really the best way to find out. Even those of us who have no qualms about reading YA books well into old age, and who mix them in with our adult reading regularly, could never convey to you all of the nuances of what makes a book YA rather than a book meant for adult readers. It's a combination of things. The amount of sex and violence, yes, but more even more importantly whether the age of the protagonist and whether or not the themes are likely to resonate with younger readers. And the boundaries can be a bit blurred.

In the UK and the US, how long you have been writing is not a factor in what length would be acceptable to a publisher. (It matters in Australia, but the publishers there prefer Australian authors.) What publishers care about is the fact that adult fantasy readers prefer long book, and YA readers in general prefer shorter books. That, and the excellence of the book.
 
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