Themes in ASOIAF

[Eulalia]

Which theme in ASOIF is most significant to you?

 

[Werthead]

Re: Themes in ASOIF

The theme of power.

Who wants it, who spurns it, who has it thrust upon them, who abuses it, who fears it, who hungers for it but doesn't know what to do with it when they have it, and who just treats it like a game. Who can handle it, who is corrupted by it and who is simply overwhelmed and chewed up by it.

I find if the dominant and most interesting theme in the books. What Eddard does with his power versus what Cersei and Daenerys do with theirs, and what will Jon do with his in ADWD?

 

[Eulalia]

Re: Themes in ASOIF

Oh, of course Werthead! The Game of Thrones and all that.

If any of the moderators can fix the header, that would be nice. I should be flayed for forgetting the "A".

And, (such an important word) how about the Beauty and the Beast theme? GRRM is often messing with people's appearance which he has sometimes caused not to match their character. Tyrion and Brienne are just some of many to suffer from that difficulty

 

[The Imp]

Re: Themes in ASOIF

While it's undeniable that the theme of Power is strong throughout ASOIAF, I think the them of Transformation may be stronger. Bran, Arya, Sansa, Jon, Jaime, Catelyn, Dany, Jaime, Tyrion, Theon, etc. all have undergone fairly dramatic transformation in terms of where/what they are today vs. when they were introduced in the series. The face of Westeros has changed- Kings have been slain, dragons have been born, and who knows what changed The Others may bring. The prospect of what some of my favorite characters are becoming is more interesting to me than the idea of power, which I find to be more static and far more predictable.

 

[Corn! Corn! Corn!]

Re: Themes in ASOIF

I agree w/ both Wert and Imp, and think that many of the "transformations" Imp speaks of occur because of changes in power.

 

[The Imp]

Re: Themes in ASOIF

I agree w/ both Wert and Imp, and think that many of the "transformations" Imp speaks of occur because of changes in power.

Kind of, sort of, but not always. Bran started on the path when he fell, early in book one, Arya when she began studying with Syrio, Jaime becuase of the loss of his hand (although I guess you could call that about power), Cat becuase she was murdered, Theon will be becuase of a complete LOSS of power, etc. etc.

 

[Culhwch]

Re: Themes in ASOIF

If any of the moderators can fix the header, that would be nice. I should be flayed for forgetting the "A".

Done. And we'd never flay you. Not personally, anyway. We subcontract to the Boltons.

The themes that speak most to me are ones that I find I explore in my own work as well - family, duty and honour, and redemption. As far as family goes, I tend to gravitate more towards the Starks and the Tullys then, say, the Lannisters and their interesting familial relationships - but I do find them all intriguing. Duty and honour ties back into the Starks and the Tullys, as well, and surfaces in other characters, Davos being the most prominent, as well as Barristan Selmy and others. And there we also find redemption, which drives a number of characters - Davos, Selmy, even Jaime.

 

[Eulalia]

Much obliged, Culhwch!

Don't want to be rendered out. Not this week.

The Hound is a candidate for redemption, too.
Do you think he will redeem Cersei? GRRM likes a challenge.

 

[Clansman]

It will be interesting to see how the themes play out. Power and its abuse appears to be backfiring for some, whereas we don't know how the stalwart will last (the Starks have been clobbered, true, but of the children, only Rob is dead). And then there is the broad middle-ground, which is occupied by so very many.

Eulalia, I can see the Hound redeemed, as he had a kernel of character (actually something larger than a kernel) worthy of redeeming. Cersei being redeemed seems akin to Ned Stark coming back to life. It would make the story stupid. Her conscience is so seared by her unrepentant actions, I don't see it happening. GRRM is not the kind of writer who is terribly interested in hope. Maybe a little, but not a lot.

Ah. My 1000th post. Now, it's off to the Lounge, and the 1000 Post Club...

 

[Essmund]

Hmm first post but couldn't resist ...

The theme that made the most impression on me is the way that honour is used both as a guideline for one's entire life, or as a weakness to be exploited. The most prominent example of both is ofcourse Ned, seeing how his honour made him feared but also proved his downfall. Though I can't agree more on the fact that power might be the main theme of the series. And the way it influences the story from sibbling rivalries up to dynastic struggles ... makes me feel all giddy and inspired

btw sorry for the spelling mistakes ... dyslectic here -.-

Marc

 

[The Imp]

Hmm first post but couldn't resist ...

The theme that made the most impression on me is the way that honour is used both as a guideline for one's entire life, or as a weakness to be exploited. The most prominent example of both is ofcourse Ned, seeing how his honour made him feared but also proved his downfall. Though I can't agree more on the fact that power might be the main theme of the series. And the way it influences the story from sibbling rivalries up to dynastic struggles ... makes me feel all giddy and inspired

btw sorry for the spelling mistakes ... dyslectic here -.-

Marc

Welcome to the board, and btw, your post had only one spelling error and one typo, not bad

 

[Culhwch]

Yes, welcome aboard, Essmund!

As for GRRM redeeming Cersei - I agree with Clansman, she's beyond redemption, and to even try would be ludicrous. But! if anyone can do it successfully, it'd be George.

 

[The Imp]

Redeeming Cersei. I suppose that if her twin could be on his way to redemption there could be a scenario whereshe is as well. It would seem that if it took Jaime losing his power, his sowrd hand, to start becoming a different person, perhaps Cersei's beauty? Although as I wrote that I realized how laughable that would be. She be an even bigger bitch if she was, say, disfigured. Maybe when she loses all three of her children, as in the Maggy prophecy? Abything a mere mortal could come up with would be a stretch, maybe GRRM could do it though.

 

[Eulalia]

Cersei might be beyone redemption, and yet, as heinous as her crimes of morality and logic are, I so feel glimmerings of pity aroused. As mad as that may be. She was forced to marry a man who ended beating her and sleeping around and betraying her rather thoroughly. She is frustrated by the limitations of her gernder as a commander. But there is no shortage of balls on that one. She is doing her best to promote her children as any mother in her position whould have been expected to. Yet she's screwed up the regency.

She's lost her lover and brother, her father, her uncle, and her mother and her dear son, and stands to lose much more, like her crown, her beauty and her life. For me that elicites compassion, unless she kills jaime or Tyrion or Arya, or Sansa, or Sandor.

How could she redeem herself(partially)? It's a toughy, but possibly by saving Sansa or Arya Jaime or Tyrion?

Never fear, I still think she's loathsome.

 

[The Imp]

Cersei might be beyone redemption, and yet, as heinous as her crimes of morality and logic are, I so feel glimmerings of pity aroused. As mad as that may be. She was forced to marry a man who ended beating her and sleeping around and betraying her rather thoroughly. She is frustrated by the limitations of her gernder as a commander. But there is no shortage of balls on that one. She is doing her best to promote her children as any mother in her position whould have been expected to. Yet she's screwed up the regency.

She's lost her lover and brother, her father, her uncle, and her mother and her dear son, and stands to lose much more, like her crown, her beauty and her life. For me that elicites compassion, unless she kills jaime or Tyrion or Arya, or Sansa, or Sandor.

How could she redeem herself(partially)? It's a toughy, but possibly by saving Sansa or Arya Jaime or Tyrion?

Never fear, I still think she's loathsome.

Cersei could do any number of things that you mention, but the real question is, what could lead her to actually want to do any of those things in such a way that it wouldn't be something that would benefit her, but rather, a true act of compassion, kindness, etc?

 

[Culhwch]

I think if she lost all of her children Cersei might go mad. Well, madder than she already is. Deranged and harmful to herself and others. I can't see it changing her world view. No, I really don't see her being redeemed. She may end up being somewhat of the focus of Jaime's redemption, in that choosing to save her or not is something of a crossroads for him, but that might be the closest to the notion of redmption that she gets...

 

[Eulalia]

Cersei losing her mind, sounds possible. Don't do it Jaime!