Fifty Fantasy & Science Fiction Works That Socialists Should Read - China Miéville

Re: Fifty Fantasy & Science Fiction Works That Socialists Should Read - China Miévill

Don't mind the quality, feel the politics...
 
Re: Fifty Fantasy & Science Fiction Works That Socialists Should Read - China Miévill

Interesting list.

I was surprised to see Philip K Dick's "A Scanner Darkly" in there...can't see what's so important to socialists in that. I know many of his works are somewhat skeptical to materialism and comercialism. But not that one in particular. Not so sure about Moorcock's "Hawkmoon" either, nor Pullman's "Northern Lights". Indeed, I would question many of the books being there (of the ones I know). Ursula Le Guin's "The Dispossessed" is a good choice though.

I wonder if anyone has ever drawn up a SF & F list for capiatlists? :rolleyes:
 
Re: Fifty Fantasy & Science Fiction Works That Socialists Should Read - China Miévill

That would be the complete works of Robert A. Heinlein. Except For Us The Living.
 
Re: Fifty Fantasy & Science Fiction Works That Socialists Should Read - China Miévill

Knivesout ... I agree

And am with Fried Egg ... I don't see why many of those would fit in the socialist world (at least the ones I have read). But some of them do fit right in and as has been said .... you simply have to admire his gall.
 
Re: Fifty Fantasy & Science Fiction Works That Socialists Should Read - China Miévill

Meh...you know I'm biased when it comes to chat about "The China"....;)

Fancy the Cat being here! Runs away quickly.....
 
Re: Fifty Fantasy & Science Fiction Works That Socialists Should Read - China Miévill

I think China's thinking anything that's anti imperialistic, anti state as well as anti capitalist.
 
Re: Fifty Fantasy & Science Fiction Works That Socialists Should Read - China Miévill

Use of Weapons on the top of the list, hmm.... Wonder if Mr. Banks got his passport fixed. :p
 
Re: Fifty Fantasy & Science Fiction Works That Socialists Should Read - China Miévill

I would have thought the novella "State of the Art" by Banks would have been a better suggestion than "Use of Weapons"...
 
Re: Fifty Fantasy & Science Fiction Works That Socialists Should Read - China Miévill

I'd have thought any of the Culture novels would probably do as an example of a socialist utopia in fiction, though perhaps Player of Games would work best as it is the clearest (and most simplistic) example of "Culture right, everyone else wrong". Heigh-ho.

Interesting list, anyway. Not sure I'd recommend Ayn Rand to anyone, though - not unless they needed a paperweight.:p
 
Re: Fifty Fantasy & Science Fiction Works That Socialists Should Read - China Miévill

Tillane said:
I'd have thought any of the Culture novels would probably do as an example of a socialist utopia in fiction, though perhaps Player of Games would work best as it is the clearest (and most simplistic) example of "Culture right, everyone else wrong". Heigh-ho.

Interesting list, anyway. Not sure I'd recommend Ayn Rand to anyone, though - not unless they needed a paperweight.:p
Click to expand...
Well, the "State of the Art" is a culture novel that contrasts itself with earth directly, looking at our flaws so that's why I think that would be best.

Generally though, I don't think the Culture novels portray an alternative to capitalism. Yeah sure, once there is no more scarcity, there's obviously no need for capitalism but then there's no need for socialism either. In fact, there's no need for economics of any flavour because...there's nothing to economise (by definition).

We don't eliminate scarcity by eliminating capitalism and I don't think any of the Culture novels claim that is how they did it (from what I've read). As far as I can see, scarcity was eliminated (by the Culture) by sufficient technological advancement.
 
Re: Fifty Fantasy & Science Fiction Works That Socialists Should Read - China Miévill

Although I wince at phrases like "savage gender oppression" I think he's got a point. I agree with the view put forward by Michael Moorcock in his essay "Epic Pooh" (although I don't agree about the same books as Moorcock, or with anything like the same vehemence) that a lot of older SF and fantasy can, in a subtle way, be quite right-wing.

By this I don't mean that such writers are fascists who hate democracy and the poor, but there is a certain contentedness expressed with what can be a bad status quo. No matter who the king is, at the end the peasants are still peasants and in truth that isn't fair. Who does the galactic empire rule, and since it's an empire, why don't they get a say?

I don't think SF writers have an obligation to tackle political themes or to write political books, at all. You can leave your politics at the door and write pure up-in-the-air dreams, and there's nothing wrong with that. But there are some very interesting stories to be written that have as their heroes not people who want to stabilise or restore the old order, but to make something better and new. I'd give a lot to see Mieville review Goodkind, or vice versa.

Funny how he's left out Orwell though. Is Orwell too anti-doctrinaire, I wonder?
 
Re: Fifty Fantasy & Science Fiction Works That Socialists Should Read - China Miévill

Well he's listed We by Evgeny Zamyatin, which was Orwell's primary influence while writing 1984.
 
Re: Fifty Fantasy & Science Fiction Works That Socialists Should Read - China Miévill

While it may be good practice to "know your enemy", I could never recommend anyone read anything by Ayn Rand.
 
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