another old computer thread... clean up and upgrade

[Happy Joe]

I just received another (free) old computer and thought I would post some things about the resurrection and transformation into a usable unit.

The victim;
H/P Media Center PC model m7170n (about 5 years old)
HP Media Center m7170n Desktop PC - HP Customer Care (Canada - English)
Status never cleaned, very well used but functional;

First step determine what it is; a model number search turned this up;
Product Specifications HP Media Center m7170n Desktop PC - HP Customer Care (Canada - English)

... Neat, a dual core 3.0 GHz, Intel Pentium 830 ... it has possibilities...

Next step clean it up;
A short perusal of the hard drive and uninstall options showed a bunch of tool bars some free anti-virus software and the stock H/P software package, along with a bunch of free games, cookies, temp files etc.

Ran through the system uninstall list in the control panel; uninstalled all the tool bars and free games (often a source of cookies, spy-ware and lost performance).

Rebooted the system and checked the BIOS settings; (F1, during boot on this machine) no surprises a stripped Bios with few useful options; typical of commercial mass produced computers. No easy overclocking here. changed the time, boot sequence (disabled the floppy, there isn't one) and boot first from the hard drive for a small reduction in boot time.
(Save and exit)

Now to give the garbage files a once over;
Installed crap cleaner
CCleaner 1.30.310 - Free software downloads and software reviews - CNET Download.com
and removed the obvious unnecessary cookies, temp files etc.
Next, I used it to clean the registry. This took several repeat runs because of some Sim's game registry entries.

Gave it a quick check for low level root-kits using;
Panda anti root-kit;
Panda Anti-Rootkit - Free software downloads and software reviews - CNET Download.com
and Rootkit Buster;
Rootkit Buster - Free software downloads and software reviews - CNET Download.com

Next I ran AVG anti-virus;
AVG Anti-Virus Free Edition - Free software downloads and software reviews - CNET Download.com

Nothing was found (I was amazed).

Next step to get out the vacuum and roust the dust bunnies & spiders out of their homes...

Next time; determining the best/most cost effective up grades, and a bit of system optimization...

Enjoy!

 

[Happy Joe]

Higher risk cleanup;
after doing the above items the machine still had nearly a 2 minute boot time and was generally slow and laggy... Time for some higher risk intervention.
I ran HighjackThis;
Trend Micro HijackThis - Free software downloads and software reviews - CNET Download.com
and it identified about a dozen very suspicious entries. NOTE; if you are not comfortable/capable of reloading your operating system, I would avoid messing with either HighjackThis or the registry; one mess up has the potential to break the operating system. After backing up the log of the scan, printing the list and researching the entries to verify they were unnecessary/unwanted/malware, I deleted them.

Some boot time improvement but still slow...
I then went to the control panel and started in on the Services (lots of information on the web under Optimize xp).
Boot times are now less than 1 minute...

With a better operating computer, its time for some games; I loaded Serious Sam and the Crysis demo. Serious Sam is one of our favorite LAN shooters and serves as an enjoyable function check I found that higher resolutions caused to the video card to start to gag. (If the screen pointer does not instantly track with quick mouse movements something is choking). This was verified by the inability to acceptably run the Crysis demo.
This media machine has an X300SE ATI vid card (in the bottom 25% of Tom's Hardware video card hierarchy);
Graphics Card Hierarchy Chart - Review Tom's Hardware : Best Graphics Cards For The Money: January 2010
To get acceptable minimum performance I prefer a vid card in the top 25%.
However it makes little sense to spend money on an old machine. Accordingly, this weekend I will try switching in an old 7800 GT nividia card (not really top tier; has some problems with the Crysis ice level but works very well for most games and apps).

A short inspection of this old machine shows 1 gig of memory, the H/P spec sheet shows that it is good for up to 4 gigs of DDR2... I tried dropping in a 2 gig stick of DDR2 ; no boot... removed all of the memory, installed just the 2 gig stick; the machine screamed at me (never heard that noise from a computer before, beeps, yes, screams no); apparently, it can take small amounts of single sided DDR2 but not a single 2 gig stick of double sided DDR2. Reinstalled the original memory until I can find some cheap sticks that are compatible.

Next time; vid card change and perhaps a look at trying W7 in dual boot.

Enjoy!

 

[Happy Joe]

The final chapter...
The slow ati x300 video card was changed out for an old and relatively fast nvidia 7800 gt; the results were very gratifying good game response runs the crysis demo without glitches or issues on a much higher resolution (the x300 was unplayable).

I started in to make a Xp media/Windows 7 dual boot machine out of it, for several reasons;
Its a used machine, I don't have all of the OEM software disks, and there are a number of video/picture editing programs that I wish to preserve.
There are several "holes" in the software due either to virus action or someone with busy fingers and less knowledge than they thought they had.
I would like to run the windows performance rating as an independent confirmation of performance improvement.

Since I am doing this at the lowest possible cost; I did not use commercial software to repartition the hard drive. (Its necessary to either use 2 separate drives or a drive with several partitions to accomplish dual boot).
The hard drive was pulled and installed in another W7 based machine (vista will also work). The disk management console in W7 was used to shrink the existing partition then establish and format a new partition for W7.
After removing the drive to the original machine an attempt was made to install W7 64 bit (both information programs and the H/P website indicated that the motherboard and processor were 64 bit compatible)... the results were disastrous; The machine entered a continuous reboot cycle and became unusable. After spending an inordinate amount of time trying to fix the issue I tried reverting to the old setup... no joy!
The issue was resolved by reinstalling the drive in the W7 machine then deleting and reforming the W7 partition.
The drive was placed back in the original machine and 32bit W7 was installed without issue on the new partition.
I don't believe that this was in any way a W7 issue its most likely due to the old machine. If I get really bored, I may have another go at reinstalling W7-64.

I downloaded and installed the appropriate drivers, It worked and worked pretty well.
after reinstalling the near useless X300 video card a performance baseline was run in W7;
Processor.........4.7
Memory............4.5
Graphics...........2.0
Game Graphics...3.3
Hard Drive ........5.6
confirming my earlier feeling that the video card was very slow.

Upgrading back to the 7800 GT;
Graphis.............5.9
Game Graphics...5.4

The memory is now the sore point causing a 4.5 overall rating. The memory was up graded by substituting two 1 gig sticks of Adata DDR2 800 memory (pretty much average quality/speed memory).
Final scores;
Processor.........4.7
Memory............5.2
Graphics...........5.9
Game Graphics...5.3
Hard Drive ........5.4

A much better balanced and overall more usable machine; overall score 4.7.

Attempts at over clocking this machine to raise the processor score have proved fruitless; I was able to use clock gen to, supposedly, raise the clocks to 3.3 gHz but other monitoring software did not agree with the numbers and the benchmarks remained unchanged.

Just as a cross brand (Intel vs. AMD) reference: my HTPC has a very similar processor from AMD (dual core 3.0 Ghz)... it scored 6.1 in the processor benchmark (stock clocks) vs. the Intel 4.7. In all fairness though; the AMD is several years newer.

Hope You enjoyed this little exercise (I did).

 

[Happy Joe]

Re: another old computer thread... budget gammer

A friend has approached me about upgrading his machine... he is not able to play even some old games;

Victim 2;
Compaq Presario S6220WM
Compaq Presario S6220WM Desktop PC Product Specifications Compaq Presario S6220WM Desktop PC - HP Customer Care (United States - English)

This 2004 era machine has;
a 2.8 Ghz Intel Celeron processor,
1 gig of 133 memory,
no video card slot (on board video),
an aftermarket PCI video card.
The 2.8 Celeron is basically a Pentium 4 that has had its memory chopped.
The PCI video card was an upgrade over the on board video but is not adequate for modern games.
the chip motherboard, video and memory are obsolete.

Its no wonder He wants an upgrade....

Budget is nearly the overwhelming consideration here;

The cheapest/best processor for the price that I could find, at this time, is the AMD 435 (Rana) 2.9 ghz triple core (one core of a 4 core is deactivated).
Newegg.com - AMD Athlon II X3 435 Rana 2.9GHz 3 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core Processor
While this processor has no L3 cash tests/benchmarks only show around a 5% decrease in performance with a substantial price advantage. There is a small possibility that the 4th core can be activated via the motherboard. The user does almost no multitasking and only a few games require more than one core; so this user is a good candidate for an inexpensive multi-core, mostly for future proofing. $71

Some more searching found the Biostar A785G3 AM3 motherboard;
BIOSTAR :: A785G3 :: Specification
Since this user does not need nor want dual video card capability and has no desire for advanced features, a stripped board will likely suffice (he wants low cost; the 785 chip gives the possibility of running in parallel with the 4850 to slightly enhance the video performance along with backup capability in case of vid card failure). $60

This user wants Windows XP 32 bit, as he is not familiar with either Vista or W7. OS existing= free

32bit operating systems normally can only access around 3 gig of memory, so a single 2 gig DDR3 memory stick was selected, to allow future upgrade-ability (only 2 memory slots on the board). Adata $57

The best performance per $ video card out there right now seems to be the ATI 4850 at around $100; because most games are video card limited right now it pays to spend extra on a higher quality video card.
GV-R485ZL-512H - GIGABYTE - Product - Graphics Accelerator - Overview

Chucking all of these items (plus a DVD burner and HD) into a power supply calculator;
Antec Power Supply Calculator
Gives a probable power usage of just over 300 watts.

I have a number of adequate supplies (the existing supply is a 250 watt (at least on the label) and not suitable). Free

A bit of searching on NewEgg gets the processor and motherboard as a combo deal at $115
total cost of parts on order; $272
Delivery expected Thursday or Friday of this week.

I'll post back when assembly starts.

Enjoy!

 

[Happy Joe]

Re: another old computer thread... budget gamer

The parts came, no problems.

A word on anti-static precautions;
Ideally changing out a computer's innards should be done at an anti-static work station while wearing an anti static-wrist strap to assure that static electricity does not damage the components...
In the real world there are only a few of us that have this equipment, so a work around is in order;
If you do not have the anti-static gear try to work with one hand touching the computer's metal case or at least frequently touch it, to assure that static is equalized (its not a guarantee, but better than nothing).

Note; there are still a few old cases that are not compatible with ATX hardware; you need to verify the case is compatible before ordering parts, then order parts that are compatible with your case. It is also possible to order a full sized ATX mother board that will not fit into a mini or micro ATX case. There are also a few hermaphrodite cases like old macs and BTX that will not fit ATX parts.

Case prep and disassembly;

Unplug all wires from the case and remove the cover.

To ease the cramped space in the case I normally remove the power supply first (if possible). Typically 4 screws through the back of the case).

Next remove any PCI cards (they are normally held to the chassis by a screw where the cables can plug in from the back of the case). If possible store in anti-static bags.

Then locate and remove the rest of the cables to the motherboard (draw diagrams and or take pics if your memory won't stand the strain).

Locate the motherboard hold down screws and look to verify that it can be removed once the screws are out, it may be necessary to remove things like chassis fans and duct work first. Do so if they will interfere.

Remove the motherboard hold down screws and set them in a cup or somewhere where they will not become lost.

Remove the motherboard and store it in an anti-static bag. It may be necessary to tip wiggle and twist. Don't force it sometimes there are pop connectors securing the motherboard through a screw hole, or sometimes you just missed a screw.

Remove the filler plate from the back of the computer case if it is different from the one that came with your new motherboard. Be careful it is thin sheet metal and very sharp; don't cut yourself. the filler plate just snaps in/out but some time it is very tight.

Now examine the cable that runs from the mother board to the front panel switch and LEDs. hopefully it has several individual 2 wire plugs that plug into the motherboard. If it does not (like this Compaq) it may be necessary to rearrange the contacts in the plug to match the new motherboard. If it has a ribbon cable you will need to fabricate one or more adapters, or solder different wires on the switch to use it. You can normally compress a very small spring on the side of the non ribbon cable plug contact with a pointed instrument, to remove them and rearrange them in the plug to match your new motherboard (there is a diagram in the manual that shows the hook up. Most also have the on/off, reset, HDD led, and power Led silk screened onto the motherboard). Use care as the wires are fine and break easily).

Once assured that you can switch the computer on after reassembly, its time to unpack the motherboard...

To be continued...

Enjoy!

 

[Happy Joe]

Re: another old computer thread... Budget gamer part 3

With the case stripped and the compatibility of the power switch connection assured, it time to get the mother board ready for install;

Clear a clean comfortable work surface, then clean it again to assure that no metallic particulates are present, avoid working on static surfaces like Plexiglas, I like dry Formica that has been wiped down with a damp cloth.

Verify the contents of the motherboard box against the manufacturer's list, if there are missing parts call customer service to figure out what to do.

The contents should include a manual (sometimes on a CD) a CD with drivers, the mother board and a filler plat for the case, at a minimum. Other parts like cables and adapters are some times included.

Remove the motherboard from the plastic anti-static bag , if it has a foam pad on the back leave it in place for static protection. set it on the work surface and raise the connector socket lever to the upright position.

Remove the processor from its box, if it is an OEM processor it should be in a plastic container with a piece of black plastic foam protecting its pins, Touch something metal to ground yourself before remove the processor from the plastic.
remove the processor from the plastic container and remove the black foam. Handle the processor carefully by the edges, examine the underside for bent pins.
(if bent pins are found return the CPU to the foam and plastic container, call customer service and try to return the processor, attempts to straighten pins often result in broken pins and a scrap/non returnable processor).
while looking at the processor note gaps in the pins and/or pins missing from the corners; compare the pattern of missing pins with the holes in the CPU socket to determine the processor orientation.
CPU into the socket holes, if it is correctly oriented and there are no bent pins it will fall in to place by itself, do not press or attempt to force it into place.
with the CPU in place flat to the socket lower the Socket locking lever into place to secure the CPU. Clean the upper surface of the CPU with a clean lint free cloth moistened in rubbing alcohol.

If you received a Retail CPU it should have an approved heat sink with fan in the box. if you got a n OEM CPU it will not have a heat sink or fan(this will have to be purchased separately).
The included heat sink that comes with retail processors normally comes with thermal interface material (TIM) applied (DO NOT TOUCH).
Note the method of mounting the heat sink to the motherboard and familiarize yourself with the procedure.
Remove any protective plastic from the heat sink compound and carefully place the heat sink on the processor and secure it per the instructions.

If you have an aftermarket CPU follow the instructions that came with it and install any required mounting hardware.

If you mess up the heat sink compound (TIM) it will need to be reapplied, preferably to the surface of the CPU. Clan any residual TIM from the heat sink and /or processor using a clean lint free cloth and rubbing alcohol (some very old processors used a wax like TIM that needs a razor blade to remove from the heat sink, do not use a razor blade on the CPU.

I like Arctic silver 5 TIM but any commercial TIM will work; TIM is necessary to fill the tiny insulating gaps between the processor and heat sink, do not run the machine without it. Spread a thin line along one edge of the CPU's heat sink contact surface, then use a sharp edged (new) credit card to evenly spread a very thin layer across the CPU surface, beware of contamination, remove any fine fibers or particles that are found. Even spreading of a thin layer requires some experience, be patient and try to get it nearly transparent. AS 5 is somewhat conductive some other TIM is not. Do not allow conductive TIM on the pins or anywhere on the CPU that has electrical connection, if in doubt clean it off with rubbing alcohol.

After the TIM is applied carefully position the heat sink and secure it per the instructions.

Lay the clan stripped/open case on its side on the work surface near the motherboard.
Locate the thin sheet metal filler plate , remove and unneeded metal cutouts that may still be in place, orient it properly in the case for the mother board and press it into the opening in the case from the inside (this may not be easy).

Examine the motherboard screw/mounting locations in the case to verify that their pattern and location is identical to the mounting holes in the motherboard, extra unused locations outside of the motherboard are OK but some cases have standoffs in unused locations under the motherboard in non mounting locations if these are not removed they can short out and destroy the computer. Very rarely, I have had to install standoffs in generic proprietary cases to support the motherboard.

Lift the mother board and remove any protective foam from the back, carefully move it into position the case and gently slide it into the holes in the filler plate. It should fit well and easily do not force it. If the case has snap din connectors or pegs for the mother board snap these into the screw holes, if it has screws install them after moving any loose cables/wires out of the way.

Install the power supply, if it cannot be installed due to heat sink fan interference remove the motherboard first, install the power supply then reinstall the motherboard.

Following the user manual install the power switch, reset(if existent), HDD LED, power LED and speaker (if existent) connectors onto their respective locations.

Flip the little plastic levers away from the memory slots. Remove the memory sticks from their packaging and insert them into the slots. Note they have an off center slot that keeps them from being inserted improperly in motherboards that require a different memory type or in the wrong orientation.
Memory sticks require firm pressure to insert in the connectors but should not require a lot of force if you need to press on them hard; remove the stick verify that it is the correct memory type and oriented correctly, then try again.
When successful the little plastic levers should snap into place by themselves, although a bit of gentle help may be necessary to get them fully engaged,

If installing less than the full complement of memory sticks in a motherboard consult the user manual to find out which slots to install the memory into.

plug the main power connector into the motherboard,
plug the CPU power connector (some are 4 pin some are 8 pin and some motherboard /processors don't need them.
plug the CPU/heat sink fan into the motherboard
plug the case fan (if required) into the motherboard
plug the front panel usb connector and audio connectors (if existent) into the motherboard.
plug the IDE cables or SATA cables into the hard drives, CD/DVD drives and motherboard.
plug the power supply into the drives
Floppy drives are no longer used but many card still have a slot plug it, and the power supply, in if applicable

We are nearly ready to fire it up... next time...

Enjoy!

 

[Happy Joe]

Re: another old computer thread... Budget gamer part 4

Go over all of the connections and cables one last time to verify that they are all connected.
If the board has on board video and you intend to use it plug the display into that port.
If you have a video card and you want to use it verify that it is compatible with the mother board and plug it in. Note AGP video cards are not compatible with PCIE slots in motherboards and vice versa.

Get your operating system disk out.
Get out the driver disk out for your mother board,
get the driver disk out for your Video card (if used).

Alternatively you can go on line (with a different computer) and download the newest drivers for the motherboard, chip set, sound and graphics/vid card to get the most up to date version. either burn them to a CD or drop them on a thumbnail drive.

Plug in a mouse, keyboard, speaker set and display.
If the power supply has a switch on the back switch it off.
Insert the AC plug into the power supply and plug the other end into a known good outlet.

Turn on the monitor/display and speakers.
switch the power supply to on; some motherboards have led indicators on them one or more will sometimes light.
press the power button on the front of the computer, it the fans should wind up and the LEDs on the mother board should light (if equipped).

If this happens start pressing the delete key on the keyboard to get into the BIOS.

If nothing happens you need to troubleshoot;
first switch the power supply switch to the other position and try the power button again.
it nothing happens verify that the power cord is fully plugged into the power supply and a known good outlet, switch the power supply to on (1 or!) and press the power button on the front of the case again.
If nothing happens switch the power supply to off and unplug it from the outlet then verify that the power SW connector from the front panel switch is plugged into the proper motherboard position. It may be hard to see and is worth unplugging it and using a flashlight and magnifier to verify that both pins of the mother board are inserted into the power SW connector. (replug the power cord into the outlet, switch the power supply to on and try the front panel switch again).
if nothing happens, switch the power supply to off, and unplug the power cord. Next use a digital voltmeter (switched to ohms) to verify that the power SW connector contacts are momentarily connected when the front panel power switch is pressed; if not they you have a defective switch, the wrong connector or a broken wire.
If the contacts become connected when the front panel switch is pressed then verify the outlet that you have been using is powered by plugging a lamp into it.
If all else fails and every thing is verified good so far verify that the power supply main power connector (24 pin) and the auxiliary power CPU power connector (4 or 8 pin) are both plugged into the motherboard.
If nothing still works after plugging into the outlet and switching on the power supply, call a friend to help or call the power supply customer service people for advice.

Hopefully the computer has started and you have gotten into the BIOS by pressing the delete button;
verify the time and date, change it if necessary.
if no floppy disk is to be used disable it.
go to the boot priority section and select the CD/DVD drive as the first boot device and set the had drive as the second boot device

Insert the operating system CD into the CD/DVD drive and close it.
Save and Exit in the bios the machine should start and read the operating system disk.

Occasionally the old motherboard is close enough to the new motherboard to start and run the existing operating system but you will need to re-register with Microsoft.
To boot from the CD press any key to boot from disk when the prompt displays, or just wait a bit and it will try to boot from the hard drive.

I booting from the CD just follow the prompts to format, repair or install a fresh copy of the operating system.

After getting a good install you will need to install the drivers either from the burned CD/thumbnail drive or from the disks suppled by the maker of the motherboard and video card.

You should be set to go after resetting up your preferences.

Enjoy!

 

[Happy Joe]

Re: another old computer thread... Budget gamer.. final

One last post and I will let this thread die...
Once assembled the new machine consisted of;
A Compaq case (existing)
Windows XP pro (existing)
An old NEC CD/DVD drive (existing)
A 160 gig hard drive (ATA) (existing)
A 90mm case fan (existing)
A Thermaltake 0700 power supply (sold as a 400+ watt but really only good for 350 or so)
A Boistar a785g3 motherboard
2 gigs of Adata DDR3 memory
An AMD 435 triple core processor
A Gigabyte 4850 video card.

Total budget $400
Total spent $320
total time (after receiving the parts, including installing software and games about) 4 hours.

As expected everything went together with little problem (had to rearrange the pins on the front panel switch connector).
The machine is fast and smooth.
As a part of testing it runs the Crysis Demo (one of my favorite testing tools) with all graphics settings on "high" 1680x1050 and only a very minor hesitation at checkpoints. No lag, no choppiness, no problems.

Hardware Info 32 3.50-715 benchmarks;
CPU - 97435 (beat an Intel i5-520m)
FPU - 131808 (beat Intel core i7-860)
MMX - 79332 (beat an Intel core 2 duo E 6600)

Memory transfer speed - 3528 MBytes/s (beat 2x Intel xeon 5150/500P/ddr2-667F)

I will ignore the disk benchies as it is a re-used old (slow) drive
I would have liked to run the windows benchies but the owner did not want me to stick W7 or Vista on the machine.

All in all a successful build.

What I would do differently given a bigger budget or if doing a budget machine for myself (I would have a looser budget);

Use a better power supply, a real 400 watter or 500-700 watter (dependent on the number of vid cards used) from Forton Source, PC Power and cooling or Seasonic (or other true to spec. brand name).
Use Windows 7 64 bit home premium
An AMD 440 triple core or quad core 3.0 ghz processor.
at least the next step up motherboard from Biostar a785x with a faster memory specification and dual vid card support. if budget allowed a $100+ AMD north bridge motherboard from Asus, MSI or Gigabyte (Biostar does not support their Bios updates as well as the other brands).
additional memory 4 gig minimum (another reason for the 64 bit operating system).
An ATI 58XX series vid card (or 2).

Enjoy!

 

[Tinsel]

No wonder I'm not trying to do that for a living, but it sounds very nice. Somehow my two and a half year old laptop is still performing well (I think that it is about that old approximately). I know that there is a demand for someone who can refurbish a used computer.

 

[Happy Joe]

Actually after a few it becomes moderately repetitive, not much of a challange....and a bit therapeutic.

I only build them for myself and a few of my friends... it is all gratis.

Enjoy!