Some capital ideas please

[HareBrain]

Which letters should be capitalised in the following passage?

I went to visit the king of Bogna, king Fred. 'Have a care, your holiness my lord abbot, for his majesty has a nasty case of Tesco claret,' said one of the king's courtiers.

 

[Jon Sprunk]

I
Bogna
King Fred
Have
Tesco Claret

 

[MeriPie]

King Fred, your Holiness, his Majesty... my Lord Abbot maybe? This is a reason to avoid high fantasy

 

[Pyan]

I went to visit the king of Bogna, King Fred. 'Have a care, Your Holiness, my Lord Abbot, for his majesty has a nasty case of Tesco claret,' said one of the king's courtiers.

• King Fred: King is a title here, not a description of what he does.
• Your Holiness: Title, and the "Your" is part of it.
• my Lord Abbot: Lord Abbot is the title, and the word "my" isn't, in this case.
• Tesco claret: "claret" is the name of a kind of wine, not where it comes from - hence claret, Burgundy, shiraz, Beaujolais.

 

[MeriPie]

"Bordeaux IS a claret..." Ahh Fawlty Towers.

 

[HareBrain]

I went to visit the king of Bogna, King Fred. 'Have a care, Your Holiness, my Lord Abbot, for his majesty has a nasty case of Tesco claret,' said one of the king's courtiers.

• King Fred: King is a title here, not a description of what he does.
• Your Holiness: Title, and the "Your" is part of it.
• my Lord Abbot: Lord Abbot is the title, and the word "my" isn't, in this case.
• Tesco claret: "claret" is the name of a kind of wine, not where it comes from - hence claret, Burgundy, shiraz, Beaujolais.

Interesting. Say the narrator had been a noblewoman, though, instead of the (L/l)ord (A/a)bbot, would the address have been "My Lady" (as in "Your Holiness") or "my Lady" (as in "my Lord Abbot") or "my lady" (as in "his majesty")? And leaving both words of "his majesty" untouched, doesn't that contradict your other choices? Also, "the king's courtiers", and "the king", both uncapitalised. How is "king" different from, say, "Pope" which is always (as far as I can tell) capitalised?

My brain hurts.

 

[MeriPie]

'the king' is a position, 'King Bob' is a title. Like 'my mum' is a person, but 'Mum' is a name (of sorts). That's how I've always thought of it anyway.

 

[HareBrain]

'the king' is a position, 'King Bob' is a title. Like 'my mum' is a person, but 'Mum' is a name (of sorts). That's how I've always thought of it anyway.

Yes, I agree with the Mum thing, but why "the king" but "the Pope" or "the Duchess of Argyll" but "the duchess" (presumably). Does it capitalise when there is only one?

Edit: found this on Google, which is probably what I should have done in the first place. In particular:

3.Titles and office
As a general rule when a high-ranking title occurs before a name, it is capitalized. When the title follows the name, it is usually lowercased, except for the U.S. President and other very high officials. In most other cases a title standing alone is lowercased. In the case of a long or unwieldy title, reorganize the sentence structure so that the title follows the name

(So, "the king" but "King Bob")

And:

8.Honorifics are capped: His Eminence, Your Majesty, Her Majesty, Excellency, Her Royal Highness, Your Royal Highness, Your Honor, Your Grace, My Lord, His Lordship -- but: yes, sir

If we accept that one can't go far wrong by following the National Geographic style manual, the original passage becomes:

I went to visit the king of Bogna, King Fred. 'Have a care, Your Holiness My Lord Abbot, for His Majesty has a nasty case of Tesco claret,' said one of the king's courtiers.

Though this does look a little ... unwieldy.

 

[Ursa major]

I went to visit the king of Bogna, king Fred. 'Have a care, your holiness my lord abbot, for his majesty has a nasty case of Tesco claret,' said one of the king's courtiers.

I went to visit the King of Bogna, King Fred. 'Have a care, Your Holiness, my Lord Abbot, for His Majesty has a nasty case of Tesco claret,' said one of the king's courtiers.

King of Bogna (title)
King Fred (title)
Your Holiness (title)
my (not title)
Lord Abbot (title)
His Majesty (I think these should be capitalised. This is not the narrator speaking but one of the king's own courtiers)
claret (simple noun**)
king's courtiers (simple noun's, not titles)


* Await's TJ's judgement, given that we are dealing with case law here. *





** - You might use a capital to make a point, as in: " 'However, I have access to some real Claret, if you know what I mean," the courtier added..." if you had a mind to.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

As a general rule when a high-ranking title occurs before a name, it is capitalized. When the title follows the name, it is usually lowercased, except for the U.S. President and other very high officials. In most other cases a title standing alone is lowercased.

Emphasis mine.

Do you notice how all of those statements are qualified? Much of this is a matter of style -- whose style book, and whether you are expected to conform to it.

My style is a bit old-fashioned, and I capitalize a lot of words that would make anyone compiling a modern style book shudder. Most copy-editors have let it pass; they simply put together a style-sheet to keep me consistent with myself. The one time an editor went through and tried to make my text conform with the style books on her desk, she did it inconsistently. Since I had to fix the inconsistency anyway, I fixed it back the way I wanted it. Only I didn't catch everything, and the result was ... messy. The next time I turned in a manuscript, I included a note requesting that the copy-editor leave such things alone, thank you very much.

When I use the title in place of a name, I capitalize it:

"You may make copy-editors cringe," said the King, "but often they will go along with you."

If I use it in a more general sense, or with a descriptor or two in front, I lower-case it:

On the other hand, kings and queens agree that in short fiction you should conform with modern style books, since you will almost certainly be edited to conform with the other stories in a magazine or anthology.

The brash young prince was determined to capitalize or not according to his whim of the moment, but the older prince advised consistency.

Mind you, I'm not advising anyone else to do it this way, just letting you know that not every rule is set in stone. Some are, but not all.