Love or Hate Craft?

Darksaber

Science fiction fantasy
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Feb 21, 2010
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hey i've never read any Lovecraft, so i'll ask you guys if it is worth reading him? or is he just another Marmite moment.. you either love him or hate him.. there's no middle ground.

also if he is worth a read, where's a good place to start?
 
I've found I love some stories and not others, wouldn't say I strongly dislike anything though. I think he's definitely one of those writers you "get" or don't, depending on your tastes.
 
A fairly good summation, I think, to the way most people react.

As to where to begin -- that's a difficult question to answer, as everyone seems to have their own thoughts on that. However, I'd suggest looking up one of the following for an introduction:

"The Colour Out of Space"
"The Call of Cthulhu"
"The Dunwich Horror"
"The Rats in the Walls"
"The Shadow Out of Time"
The Case of Charles Dexter Ward

My own inclination (at this point) would be to go in chronological order with his work, but that's because I have long been a Lovecraft reader, and am interested in the way he builds on earlier work in various ways. For those first coming to him... some are attracted to his earlier stories; most not -- at least until they have become interested in his work as a whole, then that may change. Also, his Dunsanian tales have their fans, others can't stand them, so I haven't mentioned those, either; even though I think quite highly of several of them. I also haven't mentioned At the Mountains of Madness because that one, it seems, is a difficult starter for most people, even though it is one of his greatest achievements. So, for the suggestions above, I've picked some of the stories which seem to capture most people's interest and imagination first time out....
 
I am not an expert and have read very little of HPL

However we know a few things about him.

H.P. Lovecraft, the Necronomicon and Ancient Egyptian Mummies | Paranormal People
Lovecraft was, in his own time, a little known and under appreciated author of cult stories and strange horror fiction. His tastes were not aligned with the temperament of his audience at the time, though his work has gained world renown since his death.

this tells me a couple things.

first his writings are not something most people were jumping up and down about when he was alive. In fact he died in poverty.

second, since his passing and over time he had gotten stronger or better appreciated. This is not something that happens to bad writers (I don't think)

It makes me recall the famous novel "Moby Dick" which is my favorite book and is on some lists of 'the best novel ever written'

At the time is was published Moby Dick was a failure.

Moby Dick has become Melville's most famous work and is often considered one of the greatest literary works of all time...did not, however, make Melville rich. The book never sold its initial printing of 3,000 copies in his lifetime, and total earnings from the American edition amounted to just $556.37

this kind of reaction, to Moby Dick or HPL tells me that it's likely to be something that could be hard to get your head around. But also if/when you do it may be well worth the effort.

I just recieved the B&N complete fiction of HPL which is a massive 1000+ pages. I just started reading but have not got more than a couple pages so I am not in a position to recomend any stories yet.
 
I received 'Necronomicon: The best weird tales of HP Lovecraft' for christmas and I am loving every story in it. some are obviously better than others, I really liked Rats in the Walls. Lovecraft had an amazing talent for words, his use of language is phenominal and I think he should be rated as one of the great writers. There is a wonderful macabre feel to his stories and the bizarre factor is astounding. I have really enjoyed reading him and will continue to do so until I finish the anthology. I'm not even half way through yet, I urge those of you who haven't read him to give him a look, his style might not be to your liking but you have to give the man credit where credit is due, he really is/was an accomplished writer.
Just reading the odd sentence outloud has proved to those I know that he was a man with some very complex vocabulary. Some of the words he uses are not in general use these days, some seem like he has invented them himself, but all of them are readable and add to the numerous levels in his writing.

I am not looking forward to finishing the book, as then there wont be any more lovecraft to read (that might not be accurate) bar some letters and essays.
 
That article made me wince. The Necronomicon a real book? Sonia Greene a love interest of Aleister Crowley? Someone is having a bit of fun at the reader's expense here.
I did not read the article, I just wanted to post that one paragraph which I think is accurate about how HPL has become more important than he was when he was alive.
 
Some of the words he uses are not in general use these days, some seem like he has invented them himself, but all of them are readable and add to the numerous levels in his writing.
I was just thinking the same thing.

I am only on the first story in my book. "The Beast in the Cave"

and here is a word I never saw before..

..to find health from the apparently salubrious air of underground world..

Salubrious is a word, but I have never seen it before.

Here is one sentence from that story..

Most of the time, the tread seemed to be that if a quadruped, walking with a sungular lack of unison betwixt hind and fore feet, yet at brief and infrequent intervals I fancied that but two feet were engaged in the process of locomotion

you get the idea he is picking each word carefully.

(and this was one of his first stories from when he was just 14 year old).
 
so i'll ask you guys ... you either love him or hate him.. there's no middle ground.

I wouldn't say so. Many of his stories I love, some I think are quite good, and a few I don't care for at all. I'm trying to think of some that I out-right hate, and not coming up with any.

My guess is that those who have extreme reactions have read a fairly limited number of his works, because the quality of his writing varies and he actually had more range as a writer than many people think.
 
Indeed he did, both in and outside the horror genre (try his scholarly little spoof "Ibid", for instance, or "Some Reminiscences of Dr. Samuel Johnson", the send-up of the Horatio Alger-type tale, "Sweet Ermengarde", for instance).

Moonbat: actually, there are some pieces left out of that book (the list below skips his juvenile tales, with the exception of the first two given):

"The Beast in the Cave" (1905)
"The Alchemist" (1908)
"The Tomb" (1917)
"A Reminiscence of Dr. Samuel Johnson" (1917)
"Sweet Ermengarde" (1917?-mid-1920s?)
"Polaris" (1918)
"The Green Meadow" (with Winifred Virginia Jackson; 1918/19)
"Beyond the Wall of Sleep" (1919)
"Memory" (1919)
"Old Bugs" (1919)
"The Transition of Juan Romero" (1919)
"The White Ship" (1919)
"The Terrible Old Man" (1920)
"The Tree" (1920)
"The Cats of Ulthar" (1920)
"The Temple" (1920)
"Facts Concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and His Family" (1920)
"The Street" (1920?)
"Poetry and the Gods" (with Anna Helen Crofts; 1920)
"Celephaïs" (1920)
"Nyarlathotep" (1920)
"The Picture in the House" (1920)
"The Crawling Chaos" (with Winifred Virginia Jackson; 1920/21)
"Ex Oblivione" (1920/21)
"The Quest of Iranon" (1921)
"The Moon-Bog" (1921)
"The Other Gods" (1921)
"Hypnos" (1922)
"What the Moon Brings" (1922)
"Azathoth" (fragment) (1922)
"The Horror at Martin's Beach" (a.k.a. "The Invisible Monster", with Sonia H. Greene; 1922)
"The Lurking Fear" (1922)
"Ashes" (with C. M. Eddy, Jr.; 1923)
"The Ghost-Eater" (with C. M. Eddy, Jr.; 1923)
"The Loved Dead" (with C. M. Eddy, Jr.; 1923)
"The Festival" (1923)
"Deaf, Dumb, and Blind" (with C. M. Eddy, Jr.; 1924?)
"He" (1925)
"The Descendant" (fragment; 1926?)
"Two Black Bottles" (with Wilfred Blanch Talman; 1926)
"The Last Test" (with Adolphe de Castro; 1927)
"History of the Necronomicon" (1927)
"The Curse of Yig" (with Zealia Reed Bishop; 1928)
"Ibid" (1928?)
"The Electric Executioner" (with Adolphe de Castro; 1929)
"The Mound" (with Zealia Reed Bishop; 1929-30)
"Medusa's Coil" (with Zealia Reed Bishop; 1930)
"The Trap" (with Henry S. Whitehead; 1931)
"The Man of Stone" (with Hazel Heald; 1932)
"The Horror in the Museum" (with Hazel Heald; 1932)
"Winged Death" (with Hazel Heald; 1933)
"Out of the Aeons" (with Hazel Heald; 1933)
"The Horror in the Burying-Ground" (with Hazel Heald; 1933/35)
"The Hoard of the Wizard-Beast" (with Robert H. Barlow; 1933)
"The Slaying of the Monster" (with Robert H. Barlow; 1933)
"The Book" (fragment; 1933?)
"The Tree on the Hill" (with Duane W. Rimel; 1934)
"The Battle that Ended the Century" (with Robert H. Barlow; 1934)
"Till A' the Seas" (with Robert H. Barlow; 1935)
"Collapsing Cosmoses" (with Robert H. Barlow; 1935)
"The Challenge from Beyond" (with C. L. Moore, A. Merritt, Robert E. Howard, and Frank Belknap Long; 1935)
"The Disinterment" (with Duane W. Rimel; 1935)
"The Diary of Alonzo Typer" (with William Lumley; 1935)
"In the Walls of Eryx" (with Kenneth J. Sterling; 1936)
"The Night Ocean" (with Robert H. Barlow; 1936)

This does not include those which have been published as stories, but were actually excerpts from his letters, such as "The Evil Clergyman" or "The Very Old Folk" -- the latter of which Frank Belknap Long was given permission to use and which became the core of his short novel The Horror from the Hills; or the spurious fragment, "The Thing in the Moonlight", only part of which was actually by HPL, the opening and closing of which were by J. Chapman Miske.

Of course some of these are negligible pieces, especially several of those written with the (very) young Barlow (though "Till A' the Seas" has some impressive moments, and "The Night Ocean", which was largely Barlow's, is a superb achievement), etc., but some of them are quite substantial pieces... and a lot of the earlier ones are his "Dunsanian" pieces, a reading of which will add to your enjoyment of The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath" and "The Strange High House in the Mist"....
 
I am not looking forward to finishing the book, as then there wont be any more lovecraft to read (that might not be accurate) bar some letters and essays.

There are plenty of stories (many of them pretty good or even VERY good, such as "Sweet Ermengarde") that didn't make it into that book -- look at the Arkham House books, for example.
 
I did not read the article, I just wanted to post that one paragraph which I think is accurate about how HPL has become more important than he was when he was alive.

:D Yeah, you're right. That's probably the one correct paragraph in the whole mess.
 
The thing I love is that you can read H. P. Lovecraft all your mature days and still find endless ways to appreciate him. Discussing with j. d. aspects of "Beyond the Wall of Sleep" have added my appreciation of that strange story, one of HPL's early science fiction tales. The stories that I love never dull for me, and I am constantly returning to them for the sheer pleasure they give me, as I return to Lovecraft's letters for the same reason. I have yet to really admire "Through the Gates of the Silver Key" or "The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath" -- but this year I think I may return to them for a careful re-reading and contemplation. I am also hooked on reading literary criticism and biography, and I find that when I read this sort of thing pertaining to HPL it fires my imagination and returns me to his fiction, which opens up as never before. This happens always when I read a new issue of Lovecraft Annual or when I return to something as heavy and mesmerizing as Robert H. Waugh's The Monster in the Mirror.
 
I first read Lovecraft many years ago and it was just the one story in a collection. You know, I don't even remember now what the collection was. I'd borrowed it from the rental store. I do remember the story though .... it was The Cats of Ulthar. And the story stuck ... not just because it was about cats but because of the way it was written. I liked the words and the slow build-up. How everything flowed along and was described clearly. I could see the clouds change in the skies when the kitten went missing.

I later went on to read his other works. Some I loved immediately. Others did not strike such a deep chord and yet others (The Mound is an example) grew on me with each reading. As has already been said you can keep reading his stories and they'll show you endless ways of appreciating them. I read and re-read the ones I love best. They're like good friends.

I re-read the ones I'm ambivalent about and sooner or later they creep under my skin too. I read his letters which are a joy and an amazement and my reading horizons broadened when I also started reading the tales Lovecraft cared for.

I wish he had been as appreciated when he was alive as he is now and often wonder what he'd say if he were here now.
 
As to where to begin -- that's a difficult question to answer, as everyone seems to have their own thoughts on that. However, I'd suggest looking up one of the following for an introduction:

"The Colour Out of Space"
"The Call of Cthulhu"
"The Dunwich Horror"
"The Rats in the Walls"
"The Shadow Out of Time"
The Case of Charles Dexter Ward
I would add to the above list "Herbert West -- Reanimator", "The Outsider", "Shadows over Innsmouth" and "The Whisperer in Darkness", "Pickman's Model" and "The Shunned House" to those tales recommended as a place to start. I would not recommend "The Case of Charles Dexter Ward" though, it's just too dense and long to be a good introduction for a new reader. I'm not saying it isn't good, just not for a place to start.
 
hey i've never read any Lovecraft, so i'll ask you guys if it is worth reading him? or is he just another Marmite moment.. you either love him or hate him.. there's no middle ground.

also if he is worth a read, where's a good place to start?

I started reading Lovecraft close to a year ago. I didn't think much of him before I started reading his short stories, and that all changed. He is probably the best writer that I've read, and as people have said, you can re-read some of the stories such as "The Shadow Over Innsmouth" and gain benefit in the re-reading, even after the fourth or fifth time.

Yeah, some of them are not fully flushed out stories, and yet others are written by a full master...a grand master!
 
The thing I love is that you can read H. P. Lovecraft all your mature days and still find endless ways to appreciate him. Discussing with j. d. aspects of "Beyond the Wall of Sleep" have added my appreciation of that strange story, one of HPL's early science fiction tales. The stories that I love never dull for me, and I am constantly returning to them for the sheer pleasure they give me, as I return to Lovecraft's letters for the same reason. I have yet to really admire "Through the Gates of the Silver Key" or "The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath" -- but this year I think I may return to them for a careful re-reading and contemplation. I am also hooked on reading literary criticism and biography, and I find that when I read this sort of thing pertaining to HPL it fires my imagination and returns me to his fiction, which opens up as never before. This happens always when I read a new issue of Lovecraft Annual or when I return to something as heavy and mesmerizing as Robert H. Waugh's The Monster in the Mirror.

Oddly, I "Through the Gates of the Silver Key" has always been one I quite like, though as I grow older, I see the flaws more. Still, magnificent conceptions there, and some very fine prose, despite the unresolvable paradox.

As for Lovecraftian criticism -- such a wonderfully rich field! So many people have contributed to my enjoyment of HPL's work on various levels through this, and I'm always finding new pieces which stimulate me to go back to the stories and see them in a new light as well. Lovecraft remains one of the few writers whose work just continually seems to grow with repeated visits... and I have read many of his tales 30 or 40 times over (or more)....

I wish he had been as appreciated when he was alive as he is now and often wonder what he'd say if he were here now.

Hi, Cat! Glad to see you join the discussion(s) on HPL again...:)

As to what he'd say... well, we've a hint of that, from his letters. I think he would be both flattered... and appalled. The first simply a natural reaction to being appreciated; the latter because of his own harsh self-criticism...

I would add to the above list "Herbert West -- Reanimator", "The Outsider", "Shadows over Innsmouth" and "The Whisperer in Darkness", "Pickman's Model" and "The Shunned House" to those tales recommended as a place to start. I would not recommend "The Case of Charles Dexter Ward" though, it's just too dense and long to be a good introduction for a new reader. I'm not saying it isn't good, just not for a place to start.

Well, as I said in my earlier post, I'm going on what I've seen as those which most frequently drew people in to his work, rather than ones I personally feel are either his best (though several of those mentioned are) or are among my own favorites. On the other hand, I've seen plenty of people turned off by the Herbert West tales or "Pickman's Model", and especially "The Shunned House" -- which latter is high on the list of my personal favorites, one of the earliest stories I read (in the Arkham House At the Mountains of Madness and Other Novels), and one I feel is a near-perfect development of such a theme. The reason for this reaction? The repetition in the West tales, and the long expository passages in "Pickman's Model" and especially "The Shunned House" (the family history, which to me always delivered a considerable frisson through its careful accumulation of eerie detail and the development of a feeling of genuine history and depth).

If I were to list my favorites as a good starting place, I'd probably begin with At the Mountains of Madness and Ward, and go from there....

However all that said, certainly there have been others who have found the stories you name as great introductions. I think it just depends on how each type of tale hits a particular reader when they first encounter the Old Gent....
 
We all seem to have our favourites though there are clearly several overlaps. I think that if you're reading him for the first time you need to keep in mind that nothing happens very quickly. The stories build word upon word and some take rather longer than others. Even the shortest are not the 'in your face' kind of writing.

Several people I have lent his books to are put of by this 'waiting, waiting for something to happen'. It does happen but it does not jump right out at you. It sort of creeps up ever so slowly and for me, that's a huge part of why I love his work. For this reason, starting with the shorter tales might help.

That and the fact that he made horror so much bigger and us so much smaller.
 

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