L. RON HUBBARD (and to a lesser extent, Scientology)

[Clansman]

Parson suggested this as a thread in the Why is SF/F seen as geeky? thread, and I thought it was a good idea.

Firstly, what do you think of L. Ron Hubbard's writing?

Secondly, his book Dianetics kicked off a modern-day phenomenon of new age religion called Scientology, which has become a smashing commercial success, though I am unaware of its success as a faith group. Is Dianetics a hook for a science fiction novel, and then became the founding text of a new religion, or is it what he intended it to be?

My answer to the first is that as a writer, Hubbard was atrocious. I read the first Battlefield: Earth book, a loooong time ago, and it took me about 8 months. I persisted and persisted. It appeared to be written as a satire, but Hubbard couldn't pull it off. It really was a horrible book. My memories of this book make Terry Goodkind's Naked Empire look like a masterpiece of English literature.

My answer to the second is that I know next-to-nothing about dianetics/scientology. I understand (someone correct me if I am wrong) that the tenets of this faith are subject to copyright, and attempts of former insiders to reveal this information to the world at large are vigourously pursued by Scientology's legal teams. I really don't know that much, other than a rather unsuccessful science fiction writer (at the time) came up with the idea. If someone could provide more info on this, that would be great.

edit: the scientology discussion might better be in another forum. However, if we keep it focussed more on Hubbard than on the scientology aspect, it should stay here. There is also the potential for some "tension" in this thread, so let's keep it civil, and remember, each person has the right to believe as their conscience dictates, and faith, even the lack thereof, is a deeply personal thing. I am sure a scientologist would not appreciate us "dissing" his or her faith, just as I as a Christian (though I welcome open debate on my faith), might feel disrespected if someone chooses intemperate language to describe their views of Christianity or Jesus Christ (and by extension, me).

 

[Werthead]

Firstly, what do you think of L. Ron Hubbard's writing?

Hubbard is one of the worst novelists who has ever picked up pen and paper. I tried some of his 1950s and 1960s work, which was unreadable. I tried Battlefield Earth and it was unreadable. I actually sat down and read all ten volumes of Mission Earth. It was not only unreadable, but homophobic, misogynistic and racist. Hubbard is an author of zero worth or capability. It is not surprising that his 1980s 'comeback' works are self-published (Battlefield Earth and Mission Earth are published by scientology's own publishing wing) and most of their sales come from directed mass purchases by scientologists.

Secondly, his book Dianetics kicked off a modern-day phenomenon of new age religion called Scientology, which has become a smashing commercial success, though I am unaware of its success as a faith group. Is Dianetics a hook for a science fiction novel, and then became the founding text of a new religion, or is it what he intended it to be?

Hubbard wrote in the 1950s that if you want to get really rich, you need to start a religion. He then went and started a religion.

Scientology is the 20th Century prelude to the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, without the deliberate irony.

My answer to the second is that I know next-to-nothing about dianetics/scientology. I understand (someone correct me if I am wrong) that the tenets of this faith are subject to copyright, and attempts of former insiders to reveal this information to the world at large are vigourously pursued by Scientology's legal teams. I really don't know that much, other than a rather unsuccessful science fiction writer (at the time) came up with the idea. If someone could provide more info on this, that would be great.

There are quite a few websites - and one highly accurate episode of South Park of all things - which shed more light on this. The Wikipedia article may be useful, depending which state it's in at the time (scientologists frequently vandalise it to remove references to their more insane beliefs and practices). In brief, scientology is something of a cult built around some extremely batty concepts, mainly relating to the 'evils' of psychology and the belief that alien beings have been influencing human history for millions of years. Members of the cult are encouraged to give most or all of their money to the organisation. Brainwashing and coercion are among the tactics employed by scientology to this end.

I note that this forum is hosted in the UK, where scientology is not considered a religion, so there is no legal problem with saying that scientology is not, never has been, and never will be a true religion. It was created by a batty SF author as a money-making scam which was successful beyond his wildest dreams, and proves beyond any reasonable doubt that there are a lot of people out there who will quite literally believe anything you tell them and give you money in return.

 

[rai]

could it be so bad it's good? I mean like the movie "Plan 9 From Outer Space"?

I have never read Battlefield Earth, but I thought what the heck it's a Space Opera those are supposed to be prety bad so maybe it's just plain old fashoned "Flash Gordon (the Movie)" -type fun.

yes/no?

 

[Parson]

I can't say that Battlefield Earth was the worst SF book I ever attempted to read. I did get through it (there are a few I've tried but couldn't), but I remember thinking that it was far from good at the time. (It was years ago and I did not have nearly the insight into good writing I do now.) His big ideas were --- Seven Galaxies [or a number close to that] --- (I'm not sure whether at the age it was written whether that was believable number or written as a symbol for something else) and commerce that all went by matter transfer. Earth wins the war by shipping dirty atomic bombs all over the known universe to take of the "overlords." Which made me wonder who the real villains really were.

Dianetics is weird, and Scientology is just so much hokum. But the money is serious.

 

[j d worthington]

As one of the forum's rules is to avoid getting into religious topics all that much (doing so tends to lead quickly to flaming), I won't address that portion of the subject; but as far as his writing... Weeelllll, he was never what one could call a "great" writer, even at his best. He did, however, write some quite entertaining stories for the pulps, as I recall (though it has been a looong time since I read any of them); some were, again, going on old memories, rather good. But once he began to drift out of that into the other, his level of writing just seemed to disintegrate, until all that was left was an earlier form of Terry Goodkind, only for sf.....

 

[Diggler]

All I know is that L Ron Hubbard made the statement "wan't to get rich, start your own religion" and shortly after did so. If Battlefield Earth (the movie) was anything to go by, I would definitely not read his books

 

[dask]

Some of his early non-sf novels are being reissued with original covers. Seen some at Barnes and Noble. Can't remember if they're westerns or mysteries, but if I ever work regularly again wouldn't mind picking some up.

 

[J-WO]

There's this brilliant piece of non-thought out science in Battlefield Earth where this indestructable spaceship-thing is described as having several sooty marks where nuclear missiles had hit it.

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

I'm steering well clear of the Dianetics, scientology etc debate as well as there are several things I could say about it, all unkind.

In so far as his other writing goes, I couldn't get through a single book of the Mission Earth series as it was far to turgid and ponderous. That said, I must be one of the few that enjoyed reading Battlefield Earth as a teenager, long before I knew about anything else about the man. It was a dumb space opera but far from the worse I've read. The movie was utter pants however, I'll give you that.

(and yes Parson, I hadn't really considered how 'nice' shipping atomic bombs to a race's homeworld was - although they did pretty much eradicate humanity first. Quid pro quo and all that)

 

[Stephen Palmer]

We urgently need Dave Langford here, so he can post a copy of the review of Battlefield Earth he did in White Dwarf, when the book came out.

He totally blew it out of the water.

 

[AE35Unit]

Aren't his book kind of SF detective stories a la Caves of Steel etc,but not as good? Someone on another forum thought they were brilliant. Me, I remain skeptical!

 

[j d worthington]

Aren't his book kind of SF detective stories a la Caves of Steel etc,but not as good? Someone on another forum thought they were brilliant. Me, I remain skeptical!

Haven't read all that much by the man, and what I did was years and years ago, but I do recall that he was quite varied in his earlier years. To give a brief idea, I'll quote an excerpt from Mike Ashley's Who's Who in Horror and Fantasy Fiction:

[He] was at his best when writing his fantasies for [John W. Campbell's] Unknown. His work for that magazine consisted of eight lead novels and six shorter pieces[....] Two of the earliest, The Ultimate Adventure (1939) and Slaves of Sleep (1939) are set in a parallel world of Arabian legend; Death's Deputy (1940) relates to the fate of an accident-prone; The Indigestible Triton (1940; book Triton, 1949) is set in the god Neptune's domain; Fear (1940) is a psychological chiller about a man reconstructing four missing hours; Typewriter in the Sky (1940) is a rollicking farce of a man written into another's story; and The Case of the Friendly Corpse (1941) is set in the University of Unholy Names, which offers courses in the magical arts.

 

[AE35Unit]

All i remember is seing a cover of one of his books (one of 10?) that had what looked like a private eye, complete with gun, but in a futuristic setting. That put me off! But looking on FF I see one of his books was nominated for a Hugo, back in '86! Also Paul J McAuley praises one of his books.

 

[Lobolover]

Who is this Goodking antichrist you all speak of ?

Well , looking at the summaries I realy can't say if I would be interested in his prose work non related to scientology ( I don't supose scientologists ever had his pulp works reprinted ?)

 

[Boneman]

By Werthead
(scientologists frequently vandalise it to remove references to their more insane beliefs and practices)

Wait for it..........

 

[Pyan]

I think you need to read BE before making your mind up about it. Robert Heinlein said it was "Terrific", Neil Gaiman is quoted as saying: "Over 1,000 pages of thrills, spills, vicious aliens and noble humans. I found Battlefield Earth un-put-downable." and Fred Pohl said "I read Battlefield Earth straight through in one sitting. . . I was fascinated by it."

Admittedly, Neil Gaiman used to be a Scientologist, but...

Battlefield Earth and Mission Earth are published by scientology's own publishing wing

My copy isn't - it's published by Quadrant Books, who, AFAIK, have no connection with the Elronners...[/URL]

 

[Lobolover]

Thanks for ruining Sandman for me Pyan

 

[AE35Unit]

LOL @ lobo!

 

[Pyan]

I hope you don't like Enders Game...

 

[Rodders]

I've only read the Mission Earth decology as they were cheap. I've found his writting to be terrible. I also found that he seemed pretty obsessed with sex. I don't object to this, but it was pretty puerile. I tried to read battlefield Earth, but stopped half way through.