Grammar help

[Arthur_Connelly]

Need help with the grammar in this sentence:
When he stepped forward to take her hand, she noticed she over-topped him by an inch, despite him wearing boots and her wearing slippers.

And this one too:
That was disappointing, not surprising mind you; it was typical behavior for a nobleman’s son, but disappointing.

I think the bottom one might be:
[FONT=&quot]That was disappointing, not surprising mind you -it was typical behavior for a nobleman’s son-, but disappointing.

Meh. I don't know.
[/FONT]

 

[Ursa major]

You might try:

When he stepped forward to take her hand, she noticed she overtopped him by an inch, even though he wore boots and she only slippers.

The second is a little harder. Perhaps it would help (help me, that is) if it were made more personal:

He was not surprised. This was typical behavior for a nobleman’s son, though disappointing all the same.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I would suggest the second sentence needs 're-punctuatation'.

That was disappointing; not surprising, mind you - it was typical behaviour for a nobleman's son - but disappointing, nonetheless.
(Perhaps the sentence could also end with "still" instead of "nonetheless", and the semi-colon after "disappointing" could maybe also be a full-stop.)

I'm not quite sure what to do with the first sentence. Perhaps you could change the sentence so that the point about the woman wearing slippers could be mentioned earlier, and then the comparison of how she noticed that he was an inch shorter, even though he was in his boots.

 

[The Judge]

I couldn't tell you the grammatical reason, but strictly the 'him' in your first sentence should be 'his'. There's not many of us who would say that, though, so if the rest of your grammar isn't pedantically correct it may stick out. In any event, I think Ursa's suggestion of changing the wording at the end is a better one, though I'd have made it:

When he stepped forward to take her hand, she noticed she overtopped him by an inch, despite the fact he wore [heeled] boots and she wore slippers.

I'd repeat the 'wore' for the sake of readability, I think. Being English I can't say 'overtopped' grabbed me, as it reads very American-ish, so if you're doing an historical-type fantasy you might want to think about it.


How you treat the second sentence depends on the context, I think, but as Devil's Advocate says, you need a 'nonetheless' or 'still' to give emphasis (though I don't think 'still' at the very end of the sentence would work except in dialogue and even then might sound odd). If the sentence is in dialogue or the narrative is written in first person, then you can get away with the rest of the wording. but I'd make it:

That [though 'It' might be better] was disappointing. Not surprising mind you: [or a long dash - I'm addicted to them!] it was typical behavior for a nobleman’s son, but still disappointing.

In ordinary third person narrative, you should avoid the use of 'you', so I think:

That [or 'It'] was disappointing. Not surprising, since it was typical behavior for a nobleman’s son. Disappointing, nonetheless.

though there are any number of variants, eg based on Devil's Advocate's idea:

That [or 'It'] was disappointing. Not surprising -- it was typical behavior for a nobleman’s son -- but disappointing nonetheless.

each of which would be punctuated properly, but would give slightly different emphasis or a different feel and rhythm to the paragraph. Read the whole para out loud to yourself to get a feel of where you want to pause and for how long, and that will give you the punctuation you need.

For general advice on punctuation, have a look at The Toolbox, a sticky at the top of Aspiring Writers.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I couldn't tell you the grammatical reason, but strictly the 'him' in your first sentence should be 'his'. There's not many of us who would say that, though, so if the rest of your grammar isn't pedantically correct it may stick out. In any event, I think Ursa's suggestion of changing the wording at the end is a better one, though I'd have made it:
I'd repeat the 'wore' for the sake of readability, I think. Being English I can't say 'overtopped' grabbed me, as it reads very American-ish, so if you're doing an historical-type fantasy you might want to think about it.

I agree. I didn't notice it before, but now that you mention it, "his" would be the more appropriate form. I also agree about "over-topped". I don't think it is necessarily an American/British thing; it just seems like a weird way to depict the difference in height.

 

[Ursa major]

I don't like his or him. (But that's just me, not just/only/partly due to the rules of grammar.)

I think the problem arises partly because "her" can be used as a direct object or a possessive determiner (though not a possessive pronoun**), whereas "him" is a direct object and "his" can be a possessive pronoun (as well as being a possessive determiner).


I saw him. I saw her.

I saw his bike. I saw her bike. (Note: "her" and "his" are being used as possessive determiners here, not pronouns**.)



** - The possessive pronoun is "hers", though "his" can be a pronoun:

I rode his. I rode hers.

 

[Arthur_Connelly]

[FONT=&quot]Thanks for the help. I hate grammar.

That was disappointing, perhaps not surprising - it was typical behavior for a nobleman’s son - but disappointing nevertheless.

Mentioning the slippers earlier seems like a good idea.

[/FONT]When he stepped forward to take her hand, she noticed that, despite his boots, she overtopped him by an inch.

I'm sticking with overtopped. Even though I could just as easily say:

When he stepped forward to take her hand, she noticed she was taller by an inch, despite the boots he wore.

Or:

She was taller by an inch, she noticed when he stepped forward to take her hand, despite the boots he wore.

 

[The Judge]

Not a comma after 'disappointing', I don't think - it doesn't have the weight. Semi-colon as a bare minimum, I'd have thought.

As far as the 'boots' sentence is concerned, of the three, I prefer the second one. Ignoring the taller/overtopped controversy (!) the position of the 'despite' in the first one is a little ungainly and creates the need for 'that'. The last one doesn't read right to my mind, as the 'despite' is too far away from what it is qualifying.


Ursa, my brain is hurting! So what is 'your' in "I take it from your being here that lunch is over" -- and why is it 'your' (to be grammatically correct) and not 'you' (which is what most people would say)?

 

[HareBrain]

Ursa, my brain is hurting! So what is 'your' in "I take it from your being here that lunch is over" -- and why is it 'your' (to be grammatically correct) and not 'you' (which is what most people would say)?

I don't know the technical terms, but this makes sense to me -- "being here" is a condition, as in, "I take it from your drunkenness that lunch was rather liquid".

 

[Devil's Advocate]

That was disappointing, perhaps not surprising - it was typical behavior for a nobleman’s son - but disappointing nevertheless.

The comma after disappointing really doesn't work. If you say that sentence out loud, you'll notice there is a distinct *pause* before the second part of the sentence.

I think the comma could work, if you were ending the sentence sooner:
That was disappointing, though perhaps not surprising. It was, after all, typical behaviour for a nobleman's son.

But in its original form, you have to have either a period after disappointing (and make them into 2 separate sentences) or, at the very least, a semi-colon. A comma is definitely not right.