Hoster Tully (Spoiler Alert)

[TPA]

Jon Arryn, as you know was poisoned with the tears of Lys. His symptoms were described as a long term affliction of the bowels that was hideously painful.

Hoster Tullys symptoms were very similar. He complained that the crabs were in his belly, always pinching.

Do you suppose someone poisoned him with the same stuff? He was not all that old.

 

[Culhwch]

Intriguing idea. And I seem to recall Catelyn saying or thinking it came on him so quickly, that he'd always been robust (though my memory may be faulty). By whom and to what end, though? Edmure, to take over the lordship? Don't see it. Who else gained from his death?

 

[Boaz]

Who else? The Lannisters and the Freys, who else. Hoster was known to be a wiley and capable battle commander and one to whom all the River Lords would follow, even Walder... though not in a timely fashion. Keeping Hoster out of the coming Civil War/Stark Rebellion, meant that ...

1. The Freys would stay on the sidelines.
2. The River Lords would be led by Edmure... not nearly as capable nor as inspiring as Hoster.
3. Tywin would have the tactical advantage in the field and the strategic advantage at Court.

Yet, TPA, I thought that Jon Arryn was in the picture of health and was dead two weeks later. My understanding is that Hoster Tully lingered for three months or more.

 

[Raul]

Maybe it was Lysa's personal vendetta. She was motivated (forced abortion) and she got some experience (Jon Arryn)

 

[TPA]

Yet, TPA, I thought that Jon Arryn was in the picture of health and was dead two weeks later. My understanding is that Hoster Tully lingered for three months or more.

Yea, that was an itchy thing going on in the back of my mind. I was not sure of the timeline of either.

You know, if all these theories are correct, it would take a whole book to wrap them up with explanations and reasons.

 

[The Imp]

The Lord of Riverrun dying at a time that his leadership and military skills were most needed was certainly convenient. The time frame isn't an issue, as some poisons kill by reaching a lethal level in the body, and that lethal level can be attained in one does or many small doses over time. The mechanics of the Tears of Lies seem at least fairly clear, in that there is a dose that when administered will cause death over a period of weeks. That suggest that the poison is retained by the body, maybe stored in fat tissue, and is able to do it's work as that tissue is being used/broken down metabolically. That would also suggest that smaller doses could be administered over a long period of time until a 'critical mass" was achieved.

It could be argued that Lysa Arryn (and it actually just now hit me that the name lysa contains Lies. The tears of Lysa. How fitting) had access to both men and would have been trusted by both. She could have easily made an excuse that she was preparing a favorite dish, etc. and administered the poison almost at will.

Nice job with this TPA

 

[TPA]

To add more...

Lysa said that she poisoned Jon at the suggestion of Littlefinger, I guess for multiple reasons (Littlefinger loves Littlefinger). So if he has a vendetta against the Tullys, because he was not allowed to wed Cat, could he be behind the death of Hoster?

He knew Lysa loved him, but he only wanted Cat. He was willing to use Lysa, however to become protector of the Vale. I do not think though that Lysa had access to Hoster in the few months before his death.

So if Littlefinger is behind the death of Hoster, who is his cats paw?

Tom O' Sevens maybe?

 

[Boaz]

AGOT SPOILER ALERT

We know that Lysa had a fondness for singers and Tom had certainly been to Riverrun before.

One of Littlefinger's gifts is getting other people to unknowingly act in accordance with his wishes... or at least to think the scheme was their own idea and not his. He never poisoned Jon Arryn nor Joffrey, but he had his own plans ready to go the instant they died. I know Cersei did for Robert, but Littlefinger was also ready to make his play that time.

The only times that Littlefinger was caught unprepared to move were when Jaime attacked Eddard and when Joffrey ordered Eddard's death. Both moves were made on the spur of the moment by ineperienced players.

 

[IlliferThePenniless]

I don't think it's quite fair to claim that Petyr 'never poisoned Jon Arryn nor Joffrey.' In both cases he was in on the planning, and in the case of Jon he clearly organized and planned the whole thing. In neither case were the principles unknowingly acting in accordance with his wishes. I'm pretty sure Lysa, at least, was pretty clear that the scheme was his.

 

[Boaz]

Baelish has plausible deniability in both instances... His hand was not the one that put poison in their cups. But I'm not suggesting that he's innocent in any shape or form. We know these murders can be laid at his door.

 

[TPA]

Well...

The ice and fire wiki says that he was ill for two years before dying, then hints that it could be as much as 4 years.

During the timeline of the books he is an old man sick for the last two years.

Hoster Tully had been sick since 295 AL.....Hoster Tully died in 299 AL

It says he was born in 235 AL, which would make him around 64 at his death.

 

[devilsgrin]

it always seemed to me that Cat thinking it was such a sudden illness had more to do with her not having seen him for so long, and the sudden appearance of a frail, dying old man, where once had been her almost-force-of-nature father.

 

[Hilarious Joke]

Shame, everyone was so excited!

 

[TK-421]

Not sure I buy this. There is nobody of note in Riverun that would be close enough to Hoster that would do this.

 

[TPA]

I don't buy it anymore.

 

[Culhwch]

You can't admit defeat on crazy theories! That's against the very spirit of this place! You have to rabidly embrace them until your dying breath!