How many short stories should I sell before I write a novel?

[Gothmog]

Okay, I've been trying to get published on-and-off for almost ten years...most of that was in the "off" . It wasn't until a few years ago I got "serious" and started to write my novel (getting 300 pages into a manuscript with an average 365 words per page), but unfortunately, ran into some blocks with the plot structure. (A kind of internal "development hell")

I put that project on the back burner. I've read George R.R. Martin's website, and came across this quote of his:

Given the realities of today's market in science fiction and fantasy, I would also suggest that any aspiring writer begin with short stories. These days, I meet far too many young writers who try to start off with a novel right off, or a trilogy, or even a nine-book series. That's like starting in at rock climbing by tackling Mt. Everest. Short stories help you learn your craft. They are a good place for you to make the mistakes that every beginning writer is going to make. And they are still the best way for a young writer to break in, since the magazines are always hungry for short SF and fantasy stories. Once you've been selling short stories for five years or so, you'll have built up a name for yourself, and editors will start asking you about that first novel.

A part of me thought to myself: "hmmm, when you're ready to publish a novel, you're ready". But I've got no "insides" in the industry, so another part of me thinks that maybe GRRM is in fact, right. And so, I've taken up the task of writing short stories.

Long story short (no pun intended) I've finished a short story and sent it out (no response as of yet). I've got four more short stories in development stage (two of which are in editing phase) and two novellas in mind.

My question is: do you really think that one has to slug through a significant amount of time of short story writing before tackling a novel or even trying to get a finished novel published? I hate waiting!! Is it really necessary to do this? I realize that everyone's situation is different (J.K. Rowling, after all, didn't go through the short story route and got published on her second attempt). But how many of us are J.K. Rowling?

I'm getting the sense that short story writing is like an "obligation" or "paying your dues"; a rite-of-passage if you will.

 

[kurzon]

It's a yes and no thing. Short stories will work for some people, but many many novelists go straight to novels. Short stories are not necessarily a learning process for novels - they're both fiction, but they can be quite different crafts, and while you will learn more about _writing_ by writing short stories, you will not necessarily learn more about whatever issue gave you trouble with your novel.

You have more chance of gaining the attention of a publisher if you have a big track record of selling short stories, but that will not necessarily mean that your novel is publishable. Equally, if you write a great 'high concept' novel, the publisher isn't going to care if you've ever even read a short story, let along paid any dues with them.

The thing about becoming a better writer is that you need to write. Whether you're writing short stories, novellas or novels, you need to write.

 

[j d worthington]

The thing about becoming a better writer is that you need to write. Whether you're writing short stories, novellas or novels, you need to write.

I'll add to that that you also need to read -- by which I mean read critically, read closely, and learn from those who have proven to be the best at their craft. Learn the techniques, learn the rules, see how different things work, how they produce different effects, and then adapt those to your own vision and your own ideas (style and manner come in time, and aren't to be forced).

As for what kurzon says about short stories and novels... I would agree; they are quite different things, and what is required for one is not necessarily even applicable to the other at times. General writing, yes; but the entire structure of novels and short stories is different (for one thing); as well as the pacing, the need to make each word work for you to increase the effect in a short story (where you have a certain leeway in this with a novel), etc.

That being said, if you can write in both forms, then by all means do so; it increases your chances. And remember that even highly successful writers often have a several years' apprenticeship before really striking their mark....

 

[iansales]

If only it were so easy. Sell a few short stories, then sell a novel. The reality is that they're very different markets, and success in one doesn't necessarily lead to success in the other. There's certainly no requirement to "serve an apprenticeship" by writing short stories. Many recent fantasy authors, for example, had never had short fiction published prior to their debut novel's appearance - Mark Charan Newton, Joe Abercrombie, etc.

It's also not easy to get published. Expect lots of rejections. And I mean, lots. For short stories and for novels.

 

[Urien]

Acceptance for short stories appears to run at just above 2 percent (from casual persual of acceptance ratios at Duotrope). Half of those are returning writers. So open space for a new writer is limited.

Write them if you like them, and some stories just don't lend themselves to the longer form.

 

[The Judge]

Write your novel. Then write it again, only better. Then get yourself in a critique group and listen to the comments and re-write it.

If in the meanwhile you have spare energy, ideas, time, then by all means write the shorts and send them out. Getting your name around won't hurt you, and if a short is published it will undoubtedly be a great ego-boost for you. But writing shorts alone won't make your novel; at the most it will encourage an agent or publisher to give the book a little more time than the rest of the slush pile.

Good luck with it anyway.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

You were really desparate to get your point across, eh, Judge?

 

[Gothmog]

Thanks for all the responses, people. You all pretty much agreed with my initial thoughts. I wonder why GRRM would've said that? To keep potential competition at bay for a little while longer?

I think that I'm going to try to write and submit my five short stories, and at least one of my novellas. But I'm not going to do this "five-year apprenticeship program" unless that's how long it turns out to get a full-length novel published.

 

[iansales]

Once upon a time, most novelists started out writing short stories. Not all, but a good many of them. That's no longer as true. Especially for secondary-world fantasy - which requires so much world-building, a novel seems the only length for a story. There are some writers who have made a name for themselves as short-story writers and parlayed that into novel contracts - Ian Whates and Hannu Rajaniemi are two recent examples that spring to mind.

 

[Gothmog]

Well, I got a response. Less than 90 days.

It was a rejection. Unfortunately, they didn't write any critiques. I would've liked that. Oh well. Back to the drawing board.

 

[Jon Sprunk]

This post reminds me of where I was a few years ago (about five, now that you mention it). I had written a couple of novels, and was trying to drum up some interest in the second one without much success. Then I attended a conference where some agents and editors said something very much like Mr. Martin said, that writers trying to break into the business should start with publishing short stories. Now, I hadn't tried a short story since college so I was dubious, but I gave it a try. I eventually got a couple published in small markets. All the while, I started on a new novel (and another after that). The fourth time was the charm.

What I'm getting at is that breaking into traditional publishing is a damned difficult prospect. It takes a long time to learn the basics of novel-writing, and then a long time to fine-tune those skills, and then you have to write a book that someone is willing to pay money for. Five years is a bare minimum in most cases.

I think what Mr. Martin was trying to say is that short stories are a good place to start for a couple reasons. There are a lot of good skills you can pick up by learning to craft a tight, interesting short story. And shorts are quicker to write, whereas a novel can eat up years of your life. So, shorts are more "bang for the buck" when it comes to learning the trade.

But that doesn't mean to stop working on your novel, or coming up with a new one in the meantime. As some have said above, when push comes to shove you learn how to write novels by reading (a lot) and writing novels.

Good luck.

 

[Gothmog]

Thank you very much for your input, Joe Sprunk. It's always good to get feedback and to learn of the journeys of others towards success. I'm finding it really difficult to get my shorts done in 7,500 words or less; as of now, I'm trying to find markets for them as "novelettes".

Maybe I'll try a smaller press as well, or a semi-pro.

 

[Freelancer]

Could you tell me where can I publish short novels? I have few, but I don't have a clue where can I publish them.

 

[Anne Lyle]

By "short novels", I guess you mean novellas? There's not really a market for them in traditional dead-tree publishing, but electronic publishing has made this length viable again - an online friend of mine has just sold a novella to an electronic small press. I haven't looked into them myself as I intend to explore the trad route for my novels before I turn to smaller outlets, but I'm sure there are people here with knowledge of these markets.

Re the original topic, I really struggle to write short stories, because I'm one of those fantasy writers who likes to explore a world (whether created from scratch, or extrapolated from our own) in great detail. I finally made a sale late last year to a new e-anthology, though in a style very different from my novel-length fiction!

And ignore those naysayers who claim that newbies have little chance of publication. Another friend of mine got a story into Interzone very early in her submission history, and it was voted one of the favourites of the year

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

And ignore those naysayers who claim that newbies have little chance of publication. Another friend of mine got a story into Interzone very early in her submission history, and it was voted one of the favourites of the year

One success story doesn't disprove that such opportunities are very, very few.

What it all comes down to is that short fiction is not a short cut to publication. They only way to get published is to write a story, short or long, that an editor somewhere can't resist.

The author who is quoted at the beginning of this thread is living in the past.

Nobody has to write a single short story (let alone sell it) in order to write a novel and get it published. Look at the online bibliographies of several currently successful authors and see how many short stories there are, and how many of those have publication dates before the author's first novel, and that should prove the point.


(However, for those determined to follow the short story route -- and even for those who aren't -- we have our monthly Writing Challenges, 75 words to a chosen theme. Hone your skills and feel the thrill of completing a story. http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/528012-july-writing-challenge-read-first-post.html has about a day and a half to run.)

 

[Anne Lyle]

One success story doesn't disprove that such opportunities are very, very few.

No it doesn't - but they aren't zero either. I've sold one story off a grand total of 3 submissions (as I said, I don't generally write to this length).

You just have to be a hell of a lot better these days