1st Timer Needs HELP!

[brinley hook]

After searching the Internet I have come up with the impression that getting a novel published for the first time appears to be a younger person's game. 59years, one major heart attack, and four stents later, each moment here is precious and precarious. So? So I'm not sure I have the time to do what is traditionally recommended to get a novel published, which is send a manuscript to a publishing house, which could take 6 months plus. Then send it to the next one for 6 months if the first publisher declines it, etc, etc.
So then I thought, hummmm, what if I go the E-book route, but that is supposed to to yield very few successes.
There's always the make contacts at conventions method, but that could take years.
After writing more top 10 music hits than I have fingers and toes, I have learned one thing about life ..... the only thing that is stopping you, is you! I am not about to accept failure and have never been a quitter. Shoot, I had heart surgery last Wednesday at 11 a.m. and was in the pub that I own drinking one at 6 p.m., so if heart surgery isn't going to stop me, neither is this.
However ....... I am just a wee bit lost on this publishing business, so I am asking for help, for ideas on how to speed up the process.
To the owners and moderator of this forum - I own a youth basketball discussion board, so I totally appreciate your no self promoting policies. I hope my request does not break any of your rules. I am simply asking for some ideas and tips that might help speed up the process.
Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.

 

[A_J_Lath]

Sending direct to the publishers won't work. They rarely ever look at unsolicited manuscripts. If you want your work in print, you need to get an agent - there are numerous guides, both print and online; google 'literary agents', and make a start from there. Most print publishers will only accept manuscripts from agents.

Be aware though, that it can be very difficult to get an agent; even J K Rowling - AFAIK - contacted loads without any success with regard to the first Harry Potter book. It was just a stroke of luck which saw one agent (minor at the time, but not now, lol) read her manuscript to his daughter, who really liked it.

There's always self-publishing, of course. But that will take time and money - don't be too proud to consider it, though; that's how Roddy Doyle started.

Consider e-publishing, too. Either no or very little outlay on your part, and it can get your book out there quickly. Be aware that you will have to do the marketing yourself, and ebook sales are still nowhere near equivalent to print ones (the market is growing, however). I'd recommend Smashwords.com - they can get your book into a LOT of formats, but you have to follow their formatting guidelnes to the letter.

Hope this has been of some help.

 

[J Riff]

Send your manuscript off. Sometimes a reply is not so long coming. 50ish here, and absolutely broke all the time, talking about it will not speed up the process. )

 

[The Judge]

Might it be an idea to send it to a number of agents rather than direct to publishers? I think I'm right in saying that simultaneous submissions are accepted practice in the US (but doubtless someone will correct me if I'm wrong). That might speed things up a little -- at least you'll feel more in control, perhaps, if several m/ss are out at the same time.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I think I'm right in saying that simultaneous submissions are accepted practice in the US (but doubtless someone will correct me if I'm wrong).

Doubtless someone will. You can send out as many query letters as you like to US agents, but when it comes to simultaneous submissions of sample chapters or whole manuscripts, no. Most agents state very clearly that they do not want them. No one wants to read all the way through a manuscript just to find out they've been wasting their time because the author is about to sign with another agent. If the other agent finds out, then you have two agents pissed off at you. Only send simultaneous submissions to agents (very few) who state in their guidelines that they will look at them.

 

[The Judge]

Ah. I knew it wasn't accepted to have full m/s out simultaneously, but from my reading of Miss Snark I'd thought sample chapters were different, and were acceptable unless it specifically stated to the contrary in a particular agent's guidelines -- and from her comments it seemed only a minority did that. I'd read, also, of a would-be author having the dilemmma of choosing between two agents, both of whom had made offers of representation, which I'd assumed had arisen from them both seeing the m/s at the same time.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I'd read, also, of a would-be author having the dilemmma of choosing between two agents, both of whom had made offers of representation, which I'd assumed had arisen from them both seeing the m/s at the same time.

But did the agents know she had sent her manuscript to both of them?

 

[The Judge]

Good point!

 

[Gary Compton]

So what top ten hits have you written Brinley? I know everyone is dying to ask and if you answer its not self promo cos I've asked the question.

Also its nice to talk to someone who's actually older than me (51)

cheers

 

[brinley hook]

gc - I am sorry I ever mentioned the music thing. I posted the same message on a different site asking for help and some of the subsequent postings went way off the subject because of it. So since it's my fault for bringing it up, here is the last thing I will say on the matter. I wrote music from age 14 - 24 and quit because the music industry tried to tell me what kind of music I needed to write. I wrote songs for Robert Palmer, Alabama (which they used 6 years after I wrote them), Association, The Rascals, Gladys Knight, Marvin Gaye, George Benson, Steve Miller, and more. The only thing that matters to me about any of this is that I learned that if you work hard enough enough and believe in yourself, you can make it in whatever field your passion lies. I wrote over 2,000 songs before I ever wrote a #1 hit. So, to go back on topic .....


The bottom line of my current predicament is that while I understand working hard and paying your dues better than most .... 3 packs of cigarettes a day, 2 heart surgeries in the last 4 years, and absolutely no desire to give up smoking, precludes me from writing 2,000 books before my time is up.


I have been a sff fan for 45 years and have written a book I think would work to whatever degree it can. I am not looking for the big paycheck, I wrote this because I wanted to. If it never gets published, I would still love every minute of the 12 months it took to write it and all the rewrites. To me, this is my attempt to give back to something that has given me so much pleasure over the years.


So thank you for any help that you have and can give me.

 

[Ian Whates]

After searching the Internet I have come up with the impression that getting a novel published for the first time appears to be a younger person's game.

It depends on your definition of 'young', brinley. My first novel was published in the UK and Australia this March (and is set for a US release later this year), my second, via a completely different publisher, came out in UK and US in May. Each are the first in a series, with sequel having been delivered on the first and currently being written for the second. I'm 50.

The advice on agents is spot on, by the way -- publishers use them as their first level of quality control, with agents perhaps taking on 1 - 2% of the new authors who send them manuscripts.

Good luck with your endeavours. You certainly seem to have the determination and spirit required. I hope things go well for you.

 

[Toby Frost]

I agree with Ian. While I suppose I am fairly young, I also have never noticed any difficulties towards authors in SFF purely on grounds of age - at least, not from readers. It's worth adding that since SFF isn't set in reality, there may be less of a feel that the writer has to be just like his characters.

Publishers are interested in taking on a writer rather than a single novel, but unless that writer is very sick or really elderly, I wouldn't see this as a problem. Your past health issues are a bit of a CV dilemma-type-thing. My own thought is, as with most personal things, not to mention them in a query letter unless they're directly relevant to your writing, and give it special relevance.

How to speed things up? 1) Be completely professional. Always submit to relevant people (many agents don't take SF) and follow their guidelines to the letter. Read Stephen King's On Writing (although his query letters seem a bit informal to me). Writing is a vocation and a hobby, but getting published professionally requires job-like professionalism. 2) Write something you like, but also be aware of what's successful right now. For example, dwarves and elves are not popular right now in fantasy. A book including their equivalents will need a really fresh and original treatment of them (and new names for them!). If needs be, you should be able to name 2-3 current successful writers you could compare your work to, and explain why. This doesn't mean you can't have a voice of your own (you should have a voice of your own), but "It's like nothing you've ever seen" won't appeal to the money people at Publishing Corp X. 3) If possible, try to build up a writing CV. I was able to tell my publisher than I'd been runner-up in a national competition, which encouraged them to look twice at my manuscript.

These are just pointers and other people will have their own thoughts. They won't guarantee success but they will make your entry look more professional. Seen as a lottery the odds are terrible, but publishing isn't a lottery. What percentage of submitted manuscripts are blatantly unreadable, incorrectly submitted, wildly uncommercial or otherwise obviously no good? I don't know, but if you can get past that first hurdle, then your chances of being read seriously are raised. No guarantees, but it helps the odds. Apologies if this is all old news. Good luck!

(Joining a writing group might help as well. I did. You may have to choose carefully, but a good one can be immensely useful).

 

[Gary Compton]

It depends on your definition of 'young', brinley. My first novel was published in the UK and Australia this March (and is set for a US release later this year), my second, via a completely different publisher, came out in UK and US in May. Each are the first in a series, with sequel having been delivered on the first and currently being written for the second. I'm 50...

Your only as old as the woman your feeling Ian

By the way 50 - your just a boy!!

And Brinley just go for it with a vengeance, you could live till your 80 so you never know. So stop waffling and get your query letter done, even post a chapter in our critiques section so we can have a look at your wordsmithery!!

Back to me typewriter

 

[Tirellan]

Doubtless someone will. You can send out as many query letters as you like to US agents, but when it comes to simultaneous submissions of sample chapters or whole manuscripts, no. Most agents state very clearly that they do not want them. No one wants to read all the way through a manuscript just to find out they've been wasting their time because the author is about to sign with another agent. If the other agent finds out, then you have two agents pissed off at you. Only send simultaneous submissions to agents (very few) who state in their guidelines that they will look at them.

This is not accurate advice.
There is no problem with having partials (sample chapters) out to multiple agents provided no-one has requested exclusivity.
There isn't a problem with having multiple full manuscripts out, again provided you haven't granted exclusivity.
Should someone make an offer of representation then you are duty bound to contact any other agents who have the manuscript or samples to tell them you have received an offer and give them the opportunity of making a counter offer.

 

[Tirellan]

Reference for the above
Miss Snark: Miss Snark, the literary agent: Agent Protocol - posting of 3.12.2007

 

[brinley hook]

Just wanted to say thank you for all of your thoughts, I do appreciate them. It appears that the consensus is to go the ebook route if I want to do something quickly. While I honestly wanted to avoid that option, I have been there before with a basketball primer I wrote under an alias. That time I didn't want to publish it, I just wanted to get it out there to try to help beginning coaches. I put it on my basketball website for free and it ended up on 32 different sites that I know of. Which leads me to my next questions .....


Question 1 - Let's say someone has a contemorary fantasy series in the works and they aren't worried about a paycheck. They put the first book of the series on the web for free. For fun, let's assume it gets read 1/10 as much my coaching book, which was over a million hits on my website, let alone the 31 other sites. What are the chances of a traditional publisher picking up the series from there?


Question 2 - This is unrelated to question 1. Assuming start up and operating capital were not a problem, what would be the drawbacks to starting an e-publishing company for beginning authors? Would something like this actually help beginning authors? Please don't let money or profitabilty be one of the drawbacks.


Again, thank you.

 

[J Riff]

First, beginning authors are technically the people being rejected by Editors at the current moment. )
There is no shortage of manuscripts gathering dust, and publishing an eBook that is substandard, that hasn't been properly edited, is a waste of time for everyone concerned.
As someone around your age, with various completed, unpublished stuff sitting on the hard drive, it's interesting.... because -like a writer is supposed to be - broke, I can't afford stamps to send stuff in, let alone pay an agent. Help !!!
The minute you open your doors to 'beginner' authors, you will be swamped. There are online sites, like Critters, where voluminous quantities of fiction sits, in dire need of the elusive T-word. Better to stick with one or two people who can write than a hundred who want to but aren't going to be ready for years.
eBooks are like the CDs you see in the thrift stores, thousands of homemade attempts, like searching for needle in a haystack, and thus all largely doomed to obscurity. 'Tis the modern way, sadly. )

 

[A_J_Lath]

@Brinley

Q1: Well, that's the million dollar question, isn't it! I did hear a story once of one guy who had an ebook out, and it got optioned by a major film producer. But then again, it could be an urban myth, so who knows. I would guess the chances are pretty remote - but a remote chance is still better than no chance at all, so if you have nothing to lose, then I'd recommend getting your work out there as an ebook.

Q2: Yes, it would certainly help beginning authors. But the major problem would be the fact that Smashwords seems to have already pretty much cornered this market already, so you'd have some VERY tough competition at the outset.

 

[Anne Lyle]

I can't afford stamps to send stuff in, let alone pay an agent. Help !!!

You don't pay an agent up front - and if one asks, run a mile! A legit agent takes a cut of your earnings when you get paid. Also, most agents these days prefer email*, and since you're on here, I assume you can afford that

* At FantasyCon last year, there was a whole panel about ebooks, and several editors said that they now use ebook readers (the Sony one appeared to be particularly popular!) to read manuscripts because it saves lugging huge stacks of paper around.

The minute you open your doors to 'beginner' authors, you will be swamped. There are online sites, like Critters, where voluminous quantities of fiction sits, in dire need of the elusive T-word. Better to stick with one or two people who can write than a hundred who want to but aren't going to be ready for years.

Agreed! I would recommend finding some "serious" would-be published writers to hang out with, either on- or off-line - ideally someone slightly ahead of you on the learning curve who has enough experience to be a useful critiquer but not so much that it's a one-way relationship (crits from newbies can be counter-productive!). I've belonged to Forward Motion for over 7 years - it's a great place to meet other SF&F writers, as it focuses on working towards publication (it's a strictly no-fanfic site). The members tend to be on the older side (20s to 50s), so you're not going to be swamped by over-enthusiastic semi-literate teens! (No offence intended to young Chronicles members!)

I know there are other sites that do much the same thing, but FM is the only one I have experience of...

 

[marklord]

I don't think I agree with the view about Critters not being very useful. Sure you do get some dodgy reviews, but there are some good writers on there as well and you can soon spot whether a critique is going to be valuable or not.

Also I think there's something to be said for having a slightly inexperienced view of your work as well - in a way you might get closer to how a normal reader might view your work.

Critters is fantastic for getting a lot of critiques and you do find that the better your piece the more critiques you get as well. I wouldn't do without it.

I can also see the value of having a few close writing colleagues to provide advice as well, but I'm a big fan of hearing what the masses have to say as well - who knows, they may be buying your stories in the future as well?