31.12: The Pandorica Opens
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PTeppic
Reetou Diplomatic Corp
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Well, now we know what's inside the Pandorica. [And I was so close. Well, okay, I got the "what" right but the context wrong.] Not sure about the pre-titles, though it was good use of the preceding episodes to link them together. Interesting ideas about Amy and her memories, though the ending with "Rory" was somewhat damp but completely shocking to me. Hadn't heard a whisper about that outcome.
As for the main plot, it all makes sense and well executed, though I do have a big niggle - temporal continuity. The Doctor didn't meet either the Sycorax or Nestene Consciousness until 2005, neither are time travel capable, yet both are present/represented/mentioned within the chamber/at Stonehenge.
As for the main plot, it all makes sense and well executed, though I do have a big niggle - temporal continuity. The Doctor didn't meet either the Sycorax or Nestene Consciousness until 2005, neither are time travel capable, yet both are present/represented/mentioned within the chamber/at Stonehenge.
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Well I really enjoyed it, the start of the end of what has been an over all opening season for Moffat and Smith, can't wait for next week.
For a moment I thought that Pteppic's theory about the Doctor being in the PAndorica was going to come true - so close and yet so far...
I see what is meant about the temporal niggle, but as the alliance constructed everything as a trap for the Doctor there is nothing to say that they might have time travelled at the forbearance of their allies - or it might not even be the original time line, if they all came together to create the trap why make it somewhere that they could not reach? Just an idea.
Finally a thought that occurred to me last week but really came home this week - is the Doctor Who Universe about to be reset? The entire universe is wiped out by the TARDIS' destruction, which also serves as a Big Bang to restart everything.
All is wiped out - except the Doctor ironically protected by the Pandorica, and then restarted fresh and new clearing continuity to start again.
Amy on the other hand possibly came from the new universe in the first place, somehow crossing over, which is why she could not remember the DAleks - that never happened in her reality?
For a moment I thought that Pteppic's theory about the Doctor being in the PAndorica was going to come true - so close and yet so far...
I see what is meant about the temporal niggle, but as the alliance constructed everything as a trap for the Doctor there is nothing to say that they might have time travelled at the forbearance of their allies - or it might not even be the original time line, if they all came together to create the trap why make it somewhere that they could not reach? Just an idea.
Finally a thought that occurred to me last week but really came home this week - is the Doctor Who Universe about to be reset? The entire universe is wiped out by the TARDIS' destruction, which also serves as a Big Bang to restart everything.
All is wiped out - except the Doctor ironically protected by the Pandorica, and then restarted fresh and new clearing continuity to start again.
Amy on the other hand possibly came from the new universe in the first place, somehow crossing over, which is why she could not remember the DAleks - that never happened in her reality?
Lenny
Press "X" to admire hat
50 foot letters on a cliff face! Does this remind anyone of another SF series?
I like the way the episode started - a bit of an abrupt way to start a finale, but a nice way to link the various time periods we've seen the crack in.
"Spoilers!". Heh. It's that timey-wimey stuff again. Moffat has hit on a brilliant character with River Song. We've said it before, but so much could be done with her!
Mightiest warrior in history? I'm calling it as Cap'n Jack (I'm typing as I'm watching)! It'll be a bit of a cheesy move though... another Time Lord will be too much like RTD. I don't know what to expect.
The bits of cyberman lying about are ominous. I'm surprised the Doctor hasn't worked out what the arm belonged to.
"You know fairytales. A good wizard tricked it."
"I hate good wizards in fairytales. They always end up to be [the Doctor]."
Another thought - wouldn't it be nice if it's Eccleston's Doctor? Though how would they be able to trap an incarnation of a Time Lord?
With all these enemies of the Doctor coming, it wouldn't surprise me if it is the/a Doctor in there.
Oooh, was that Tennant in the helmet outside the tent? River Song's "volunteer". It would definitely answer the question of how she recognised Tennant's Doctor.
"Look at me, I'm a target!". Laugh out loud!
I didn't find the Cybermen particularly scary, but the disembodied head of a Cyberman crawling about on wires, trying to steal Amy's head? Quite terrifying! This is the first NuWho series that I've felt the odd moment of fear... and it's happened at least twice!
Oh, it's Rory... I have to say, he does have a similar facial structure to Tennant.
I said I wouldn't like it if they brought Rory back, but it's been done in an interesting way, so I'll let it slide.
They went away... just like that?! Yeah, it was a nice speech, but c'mon! Though I suppose it means we won't have a stupidly huge finale.
"Silence will fall." I recognise the voice... vaguely...
Actually, this is steadily becoming more interesting.
Oooh! Maybe Rory isn't actually real. Now that would be a nice ending - Amy remembers Rory, but the Doctor destroys whatever it is that is controlling the machines and Rory stops with them.
Hey! Those are the guns the plastic people in the first Ecclestone episode had! Living plastic... what were they called?
Nestene Consciousness! Thank you, Doctor.
Oooh, I say! Now that is clever. The Pandorica is for the Doctor! Well, there go my hopes of a possible multi-Doctor episode.
A few monsters I don't recognise... are they from the Sarah Jane spin-off?
It must be really hard for River Song - she knows what happens when the Pandorica opens, but she still says she'll meet him there in the future.
---
I'm stuck. I haven't the foggiest how they'll get out of this! Moffat, you win.
---
Interesting idea, Perp. If you're on to something, I'll give you an eFiver.
I like the way the episode started - a bit of an abrupt way to start a finale, but a nice way to link the various time periods we've seen the crack in.
"Spoilers!". Heh. It's that timey-wimey stuff again. Moffat has hit on a brilliant character with River Song. We've said it before, but so much could be done with her!
Mightiest warrior in history? I'm calling it as Cap'n Jack (I'm typing as I'm watching)! It'll be a bit of a cheesy move though... another Time Lord will be too much like RTD. I don't know what to expect.
The bits of cyberman lying about are ominous. I'm surprised the Doctor hasn't worked out what the arm belonged to.
"You know fairytales. A good wizard tricked it."
"I hate good wizards in fairytales. They always end up to be [the Doctor]."
Another thought - wouldn't it be nice if it's Eccleston's Doctor? Though how would they be able to trap an incarnation of a Time Lord?
With all these enemies of the Doctor coming, it wouldn't surprise me if it is the/a Doctor in there.
Oooh, was that Tennant in the helmet outside the tent? River Song's "volunteer". It would definitely answer the question of how she recognised Tennant's Doctor.
"Look at me, I'm a target!". Laugh out loud!
I didn't find the Cybermen particularly scary, but the disembodied head of a Cyberman crawling about on wires, trying to steal Amy's head? Quite terrifying! This is the first NuWho series that I've felt the odd moment of fear... and it's happened at least twice!
Oh, it's Rory... I have to say, he does have a similar facial structure to Tennant.
I said I wouldn't like it if they brought Rory back, but it's been done in an interesting way, so I'll let it slide.
They went away... just like that?! Yeah, it was a nice speech, but c'mon! Though I suppose it means we won't have a stupidly huge finale.
"Silence will fall." I recognise the voice... vaguely...
Actually, this is steadily becoming more interesting.
Oooh! Maybe Rory isn't actually real. Now that would be a nice ending - Amy remembers Rory, but the Doctor destroys whatever it is that is controlling the machines and Rory stops with them.
Hey! Those are the guns the plastic people in the first Ecclestone episode had! Living plastic... what were they called?
Nestene Consciousness! Thank you, Doctor.
Oooh, I say! Now that is clever. The Pandorica is for the Doctor! Well, there go my hopes of a possible multi-Doctor episode.
A few monsters I don't recognise... are they from the Sarah Jane spin-off?
It must be really hard for River Song - she knows what happens when the Pandorica opens, but she still says she'll meet him there in the future.
---
I'm stuck. I haven't the foggiest how they'll get out of this! Moffat, you win.
---
Interesting idea, Perp. If you're on to something, I'll give you an eFiver.
On the Nestene, I think they're from Jon Pertwee's era, originally.
I did have an inkling of the twist, but it was nevertheless very good.
The destruction of the universe is probably the only [barring extinction through another means] realistic reason for an alliance including the daleks. I do wonder how part two will go.
I did have an inkling of the twist, but it was nevertheless very good.
The destruction of the universe is probably the only [barring extinction through another means] realistic reason for an alliance including the daleks. I do wonder how part two will go.
I must say, I liked the snapping Cyberhead. It would have terrified me as a child (which is what Doctor Who was all about when I started watching it all those decades ago).
I thought this episode was really well put together: the things that seemed to be too good to be true -- Rory and the fleets flying away -- eventually made sense (particlularly the latter, given the god-complex The Doctor had developed during the Tennant incarnation). In fact, it was so good, the next episode will have its work cut out just matching it.
.
I thought this episode was really well put together: the things that seemed to be too good to be true -- Rory and the fleets flying away -- eventually made sense (particlularly the latter, given the god-complex The Doctor had developed during the Tennant incarnation). In fact, it was so good, the next episode will have its work cut out just matching it.
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An efiver? Perhaps (if right) I'll put it on England winning the World Cup, it's not like I'd want to waste it or anything
Tillane
Left-minded
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Best episode of the series so far (please please please don't screw it up next week, Stevie...). I'd kind of worked out what the Pandorica was a few weeks back (once I'd got my mind onto the track of Pandora's Box, it was the only thing that made sense: knowing how Moffatt likes his fairy tales and myths, one had to assume he knew what was left in the box after all the evils of the world had been released. I just hope he's going for the original take on the myth, for obvious reasons...*cough* Valeyard *cough*), but that didn't spoil the episode at all and there were lots of good laughs, scares and shocks along the way. Particularly liked the "look at me! I'm a target!" and Rory's "I died and turned into a Roman. It's very distracting."
Also liked (and didn't see coming) Rory being an Auton. Although...how is that even possible? If the cracks in time erase people from history, then Rory never existed (as the Doctor told him) and Amy wouldn't - and didn't - remember him. Ah, but...in that case, if the trap for the Doctor was built using Amy's memories...how could Rory be part of it? More to the point, why would Rory be part of it? Oh, these temporal niggles...
Anyhow. Regardless of that, the ep still leaves quite a quandary. We've yet to meet whatever it is that's set the cracks in time in motion (now there's a sentence to wrap your teeth around), or found out why he, she or it wants "silence to fall". There's been plenty of speculation on various forums, some of which makes sense, but Moffatt's done a pretty good job of keeping it under wraps. I can only hope that next week lives up to my now heightened expectations.
). I'd kind of worked out what the Pandorica was a few weeks back (once I'd got my mind onto the track of Pandora's Box, it was the only thing that made sense: knowing how Moffatt likes his fairy tales and myths, one had to assume he knew what was left in the box after all the evils of the world had been released. I just hope he's going for the original take on the myth, for obvious reasons...*cough* Valeyard *cough*), but that didn't spoil the episode at all and there were lots of good laughs, scares and shocks along the way. Particularly liked the "look at me! I'm a target!" and Rory's "I died and turned into a Roman. It's very distracting."Also liked (and didn't see coming) Rory being an Auton. Although...how is that even possible? If the cracks in time erase people from history, then Rory never existed (as the Doctor told him) and Amy wouldn't - and didn't - remember him. Ah, but...in that case, if the trap for the Doctor was built using Amy's memories...how could Rory be part of it? More to the point, why would Rory be part of it? Oh, these temporal niggles...
Anyhow. Regardless of that, the ep still leaves quite a quandary. We've yet to meet whatever it is that's set the cracks in time in motion (now there's a sentence to wrap your teeth around), or found out why he, she or it wants "silence to fall". There's been plenty of speculation on various forums, some of which makes sense, but Moffatt's done a pretty good job of keeping it under wraps. I can only hope that next week lives up to my now heightened expectations.
Dr.Jackson
Certified Space Monkey
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A cracker of an episode, but I'm glad to see I'm not the only one for whom there were some temporal anomalies.
I can just about buy that some advanced adversary could have used Amy's memories as a template for the trap, she almost remembers Rory, but he's at the back of her unconscious, like a line from a long forgotten song.
However, the one slight error that bothered me most from a continuity point of view, and I've not seen pointed out, is that if Rory had never existed then how come he was in a photograph in Amy's bedroom?
You're quite right to point out the assortment of aliens in the chamber. Some of them make sense as The Doctor has defeated them. I even noticed General Staal there, although isn't he dead? Ones that made no sense to me were - Weevils; from Torchwood, never encountered by The Doctor and Uvodni; from The Sarah Jane Adventures, again never encountered by The Doctor. Both have never been serious adversaries anyway, so why would they be in the alliance?
I'm also going to assume that the Judoon were only present either because not all of them are space police, or The Doctor sufficiently antagonized The Shadow Proclamation and is considered a fugitive who must be imprisoned.
My only answer for the confusing mish-mash is that they needed aliens for the finale and had those costumes handy, saves on time and budget, no other reason.
Like some of you I'd thought that the Pandorica contained either The Doctor or The Valeyard, so it was quite a surprise to me when it opened and it was a prison to contain the current incarnation.
Looking forward to next week, as I have no idea how they're going to resolve this.
I can just about buy that some advanced adversary could have used Amy's memories as a template for the trap, she almost remembers Rory, but he's at the back of her unconscious, like a line from a long forgotten song.
However, the one slight error that bothered me most from a continuity point of view, and I've not seen pointed out, is that if Rory had never existed then how come he was in a photograph in Amy's bedroom?
You're quite right to point out the assortment of aliens in the chamber. Some of them make sense as The Doctor has defeated them. I even noticed General Staal there, although isn't he dead? Ones that made no sense to me were - Weevils; from Torchwood, never encountered by The Doctor and Uvodni; from The Sarah Jane Adventures, again never encountered by The Doctor. Both have never been serious adversaries anyway, so why would they be in the alliance?
I'm also going to assume that the Judoon were only present either because not all of them are space police, or The Doctor sufficiently antagonized The Shadow Proclamation and is considered a fugitive who must be imprisoned.
My only answer for the confusing mish-mash is that they needed aliens for the finale and had those costumes handy, saves on time and budget, no other reason.
Like some of you I'd thought that the Pandorica contained either The Doctor or The Valeyard, so it was quite a surprise to me when it opened and it was a prison to contain the current incarnation.
Looking forward to next week, as I have no idea how they're going to resolve this.
Very good episode. Best so far. Every time I watch Matt Smith as the Doctor, I like him more and more.
My one worry is that perhaps they have written themselves into a cul-de-sac with this episode. I'll be very annoyed if next week resolves itself with one of those 'I believe in fairies' analogies (as they did when The Master had the Doc in a cage).
That would be a cop-out of unforgivable proportions.
My one worry is that perhaps they have written themselves into a cul-de-sac with this episode. I'll be very annoyed if next week resolves itself with one of those 'I believe in fairies' analogies (as they did when The Master had the Doc in a cage).
That would be a cop-out of unforgivable proportions.
Indeed. Dobby the house Doctor was not impressive (although, for me, overshadowed by the horrible Master).
Anyway, we'll just have to wait and see.
Anyway, we'll just have to wait and see.
I admit that I either didn't catch or understand half of what you have all just explained, so thanks and I guess I need to watch it again. I don't think I understood the 'all in Amy's mind' bit.
On some of the other points made, just because the Doctor has not met any of those aliens 'on screen' does not mean that he has never met them. There are many gaps in the record of his adventures. I believe hundreds of years were meant to have passed during 'The Trial of a Time Lord' episodes alone, and even in the Tennant era he met Queen Elizabeth I and Shakespeare 'off camera'.
The Nestene were from the Pertwee era and didn't have time travel, but then neither did the Sontarans originally. If they had fully functioning time travel there would be no reason for them to pull back scientists from the future in 'The Time Warrior'. And the Daleks stole their time travel technology. There is nothing to stop the others stealing or being given time travel, or inventing it themselves.
As for seeing General Staal - are you sure? They all look alike to me, and anyway Sontarans use cloning to reproduce.
On some of the other points made, just because the Doctor has not met any of those aliens 'on screen' does not mean that he has never met them. There are many gaps in the record of his adventures. I believe hundreds of years were meant to have passed during 'The Trial of a Time Lord' episodes alone, and even in the Tennant era he met Queen Elizabeth I and Shakespeare 'off camera'.
The Nestene were from the Pertwee era and didn't have time travel, but then neither did the Sontarans originally. If they had fully functioning time travel there would be no reason for them to pull back scientists from the future in 'The Time Warrior'. And the Daleks stole their time travel technology. There is nothing to stop the others stealing or being given time travel, or inventing it themselves.
As for seeing General Staal - are you sure? They all look alike to me, and anyway Sontarans use cloning to reproduce.
On the Amy's mind idea, I think that the alliance of aliens deliberately used concepts she knew and liked when designing the trap.
Excellent episode, with SM teasing and luring us and his cast admirably.
Just hope, as others have said, that he hasn't managed to write himself into such a corner that he needs a deus ex machina of cosmic proportions to get his protagonists out in one piece...
Just hope, as others have said, that he hasn't managed to write himself into such a corner that he needs a deus ex machina of cosmic proportions to get his protagonists out in one piece...
purple_kathryn
Uberly purple
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I had a sneaking suspicion it might be a prison for the doctor
Talysia
Lady of Autumn
I thoroughly enjoyed this episode - one of the best yet. I wasn't really sure what to expect when all of the Doctor's former enemies showed up, and whilst I knew that somewhere along the line the Daleks would have to make another appearance, it didn't feel too overdone. I certainly didn't see the idea of an alliance between the Doctor's enemies, either.
Some very good dialogue again ("Look at me! I'm a target!" springs to mind), and some nicely sinister moments, too - the cyberman's head loping across the floor, tentacles/leads twitching, for example. Rory's return in that form was a bit of a surprise, too. I'm just waiting to see if next week's episode will be as good.
Incidentally, looking in the tv section of the magazine that comes free with the paper, the synopsis for next week is a bit cryptic. To paraphrase it, it basically says that the future of the world depends on a little girl who still believes in stars. Looking forward to it.
Some very good dialogue again ("Look at me! I'm a target!" springs to mind), and some nicely sinister moments, too - the cyberman's head loping across the floor, tentacles/leads twitching, for example. Rory's return in that form was a bit of a surprise, too. I'm just waiting to see if next week's episode will be as good.
Incidentally, looking in the tv section of the magazine that comes free with the paper, the synopsis for next week is a bit cryptic. To paraphrase it, it basically says that the future of the world depends on a little girl who still believes in stars. Looking forward to it.
PTeppic
Reetou Diplomatic Corp
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Incidentally, looking in the tv section of the magazine that comes free with the paper, the synopsis for next week is a bit cryptic. To paraphrase it, it basically says that the future of the world depends on a little girl who still believes in stars. Looking forward to it.
The BBC DW website has a "trailer" for next week, which I noticed was absent from the end of the show. And, guess what, there's nothing new in it at all. It could equally have been a trailer for this episode. But, it did emphasise one thing from this week's show: When River said the TARDIS was at 26/6/2010, the Doctor stated it was "Amy's time". Which I think he's done before.
Also, at the end of the show and all over the BBC DW website, "Amy's greatest moments". Now, whilst there are probably a dozen ways for the situation with "Rory" to be "corrected" (though at least half have been used before, often in series finales), and TPB have previously said she'll be in again next season (according to Wiki, anyway), AND it could be a giant ruse to throw us off the scent, did anyone guess this would be her way out, and now (after only one season)?
Tillane
Left-minded
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Yeah, surprised they even bothered, considering the fact that everything in that trailer is from ep 12 or earlier. Moffatt and co really are keeping their cards close to their chest...
Susan Boulton
The storyteller
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Suggest folks look at the first ep again at 56 mins in after the adventure with the grown up Amy, it flashes back to the child Amy. You have the little girl sitting on her suitcase, she looks up and smiles as we hear the sound of the Tardis. Then it flashes forward to the grown up Amy in her bed.
Now read the short synopsis for next week's ep...
Quote: (Highlight as a bit of a spoiler)
The Doctor is gone, the TARDIS has been destroyed, and the universe is collapsing. The only hope for all reality is a little girl who still believes in stars.
On the site it also says new trailer due Tuesday.
Now read the short synopsis for next week's ep...
Quote: (Highlight as a bit of a spoiler)
The Doctor is gone, the TARDIS has been destroyed, and the universe is collapsing. The only hope for all reality is a little girl who still believes in stars.
On the site it also says new trailer due Tuesday.
Tillane
Left-minded
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Heh. Glad I'm not the only one who's been going back over old eps.
Funny, though: the thing that struck me looking back at The Eleventh Hour was the bit where Amy asks the Doctor: why her? He, of course, tell her that he's lonely (or allows Amy to tell him that, actually): while doing so, he's standing in front of the monitor, which shows the crack. He then looks at the monitor - has to see the crack - and appears to retune it.
So. Theory time. The Doctor knew that Amy was important, that she was tied in to the crack in the universe. That's why he took her on board (as well as being lonely, I have no doubt). Moreover, what's the betting that his disappearances - or at least his second one, the two years between Prisoner Zero and taking Amy away - weren't a mistake or a coincidence? Who'd like to bet that they were planned in advance, and that the Doctor had already set in motion the means by which he would escape the Pandorica and save the universe?
I have an inkling - probably wrong, but an inkling nonetheless - that we'll see two versions of the Doctor in The Big Bang. Or, rather, we'll see what the Doctor has already done to rescue his future self - a significant part of which will involve enlisting the help of young Amelia Pond...
Funny, though: the thing that struck me looking back at The Eleventh Hour was the bit where Amy asks the Doctor: why her? He, of course, tell her that he's lonely (or allows Amy to tell him that, actually): while doing so, he's standing in front of the monitor, which shows the crack. He then looks at the monitor - has to see the crack - and appears to retune it.
So. Theory time. The Doctor knew that Amy was important, that she was tied in to the crack in the universe. That's why he took her on board (as well as being lonely, I have no doubt
). Moreover, what's the betting that his disappearances - or at least his second one, the two years between Prisoner Zero and taking Amy away - weren't a mistake or a coincidence? Who'd like to bet that they were planned in advance, and that the Doctor had already set in motion the means by which he would escape the Pandorica and save the universe?I have an inkling - probably wrong, but an inkling nonetheless - that we'll see two versions of the Doctor in The Big Bang. Or, rather, we'll see what the Doctor has already done to rescue his future self - a significant part of which will involve enlisting the help of young Amelia Pond...
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