Plot/Outline problem help.

[anthorn]

So i'm 61'000 words into my novel. I've got it all plotted out, sort of. I'v got the ending plotted out though I'm torn between a sad ambiguos ending and a happy one.

Basically its a story about two semi immortal beings manipulating peoples destinies and fates to get one up on each other. This brings me to the introduction of alternative time lines, that each path diverted creates one.
The endings planned are the sad ambiguios one: All the characters are dead. "bad" guy wins, countries falling apart.

The only main character left alive, kills himself to activate the alt timeline, where I would end the book with a chapter showing this new world, and show that even when their paths are not altered, perhaps it was destiny for them to meet one way or another anyways.

happy ending would be the same scenario but them getting flashes of the other timeline and reuniting.

Both endings bring me a problem. Should I introduce the timeline earlier than the last few chapters? As in the beginning of book 3. Perhaps after the book 2 cliff hanger, show a chapter of that Alt. This would mean bringing fourth the original book 2 cliffhanger to the middle of the book. Bad guy kills enemy, accidently sets one character onto the path that will activate the alt. This would also mean that the second half of the book would be a bloodbath of main characters dying.

I'm not sure what do you think.

 

[Sleepless]

You lost me and thats just in the synopsis. I always vote for happy endings and I would absolutely hate to see all my main characters who I related to dying en masse but I'm a disney happy ending kind of guy. It sounds like a complex plot so I suppose if there's a reason (saving private Ryan to use a movie example) for main characters to buy it then that's something. Sorry probably couldn't say without more info on the plot but for me bittersweet beats depression.

 

[Mouse]

Lost me a bit too (though that's not difficult, to be fair!) Are you working on book three at the moment? So, you have the first two written, are writing the third, and are now introducing the alt. timeline stuff? Makes me think of Lost really... I don't know if you watched that, but I think that alternate reality stuff was introduced way too late. I reckon having it from the beginning would be best.

I don't mind endings where the characters die, but I would want there to be a bit of hope.

 

[anthorn]

Oh I watched Lost. Every episode without fail and loved their ending. And also I was writing it as they aired Season 5 which when I watched discovered had some similarities to mine. Mainly the Jacob M.I.B thing, in the final. At that point, we just knew that he wanted Jacob dead and so I ended up changing the dynamic of two of my characters.
So I changed it to one wants to kill the other because, her enemy has a crystal that can take her home. Then season Six started................imagine how pissed I was, and also relieved at that being the only similarities.

No I've plotted the next two and I'm on with the first book at the moment. I've already introduced changed paths. Showing how a changed path can change anothers.

So you're saying in Book3 have the alt from the beginning? Sought of like a WTF beginning, then expand on it at the end of the book. Rather than having the character sacrifice himself and then the next chapter showing the alt.

I like happy endings too, on occasion, but the story calls for a blood bath, as there is also a war going on in the backround. So you would be in favour of an ending where they recognised eachother, or at least there was hope that they could recognise eachother? The way i see it, the sad ambiguos ending could be seen as happy too, because there would be some characters that had a really **** life because of manipulations, but free of that they're happy.

 

[Mouse]

Yeah, if it ends so that the reader can get something good out of it then it's ok. That's what I mean about the little bit of hope, which it sounds like you're leaning towards doing anyway.

If you're already doing the alternate stuff from the start of book one, then that's ok I think.

I think with the character sacrificing themself and then having an alt. storyline in the next chapter could feel like a bit of a cop out. If that makes sense.

 

[anthorn]

Yeah, it makes sense, sought of like, a hey my fave characters dead, then you see, oh theres another chapter, why would that be? Wait, he's alive, and well you get the drift. Yeah I'm leaning toward a little bit of a happy ending. Either the one where they recognise eachother or, I'll repeat a conversation they had earlier.
For example, one character,a soldier, is injured in a fall, mostly cuts and bruises. But his companions a healer, while she heals him, he asks, "Do you mind teaching me some basics some time?"

Then when they meet in the alt, the woman is a medic with the army and he comes into the camp after battle. She heals him and he jokinly asks that sometime she teach him how to seal his own wounds, que a puzzled look and a question of deja vu.

 

[Precise Calibre]

The earlier to introduce the alt time-line, the more you will avoid the "deus ex machina" pitfall, which you would almost certainly fall into if you introduced the concept only in the last few chapters.

Would you care to explain exactly how one character killing himself leads to an alternate time-line? What exactly are the dynamics and mechanics behind such a phenomenon?

 

[Chel]

I don't know if the following will help at all, but I want to say it anyway - although it is of course very possible that you've already taken into to consideration...

If you do end your book with a bloodbath, make sure the reader knows why this is important. Few things are as annoying as pointless deaths of main characters, especially ones the reader has come to care about. Death is a very powerful thing, which, if handled correctly, can stay in the reader's memory for a very long time. If you've read The Wind on the Moon by Erik Linklater, you probably know what I mean - I've only read it once, myself, but I still remember how I cried.

That's a bit off-topic, admittedly, but could be worth keeping in mind.

 

[Ronanida]

Chel makes an excellent point. Main characters are there for your readers to fall in love with, whether they are evil or good. They hate seeing them die so if you do, make it a memorable and significant death. If you want to make it really interesting, kill the main chara, switch over to the alt, and then surprise everyone by showing that the main is still alive. I don't know your exact plot and if that would work, but you really need to consider what you can do to keep your readers interested. If the main chara is dead and there's still a few chapters or even another whole book to go, I suggest using some heavy foreshadowing, even if it means taking away from the cliffhanger effect.
As for the dilemma between happy vs. sad ending, I would use whatever is the most memorable. If all of the minor characters are killed off and its only the main character left, you can even turn it into a hybrid between happy and sad. Say the main chara is all alone, fighting in this war you're talking about as the only one left. The character has gained a sort of resolve to never stop fighting until the last of his life has bled from his veins. This could be at the end of- which was it?- book 3? The last pages would be filled with flashes of the alt, of course, giving hint to more of the plot which will continue in the next book, almost forcing your readers to pour over the next book.
It's all about what your readers like, honesty, and you need to pay attention to that. You may be able to catch them and keep them for awhile, but if you do somethign they don't like, they won't read it-simple as that.
Hope this was of some help ^^

 

[anthorn]

The main character is Anthorn/Rake. He was one of the first people to have their path altered, only to have a being (the Ageless child) alter it again. The Ageless child is a being who keeps an eye on such things. During book one I follow Anthorn and occasionally show Rake. (there's supposed to be a mystery to Rake, who is he?)

Then come toward the end of book two. Anthorn who has travelled with the bad guy to kill the person she's wanted dead for centuries, meets the Ageless child again. He's led to a chamber in the building/construct, where he ends up being enveloped in a white light.

Then it's in book 3 we see him again, after a brief glimpse of an Alt. We learn how he became Rake. Basically he'd been used by the higher being to gather information on people with out him knowing, (the Ageless child needing to know who's destinies had been altered and when.)
To activate it he needs to return to Lancifer, a building, construct which doubles as a portal opener, (a means to travel across a vast ocean) and actually tie himself into the machine. Even as the construct is activated he's left with no actual promise it will work and even if it does work, that himself and the woman he loved, might not even meet in the alt.

Its that or an explanation that, everytime a path is altered it creates an Alt. So in a sense, it could be claimed that, the whole book takes place in the alt as the other alt is what would've happened if their paths had not been altered.
Kind of confusing I know.

And as to the characters dying, yeah its needed. Though I have reasons for them dying.
One dies because of a thing she did in book one.
while others die due to being stabbed or drowning as their ships sink