Physical Description that works. POV issue?

[Rufus Coppertop]

I've just been reading some of the posts in the 'Physical Descriptions' thread and all of them seem to work beautifully.

When I try descriptions with that much detail though, I usually get feedback that I'm "Telling", not "Showing" and I'm wondering if it's a POV issue.

I can understand that in Close Third a person doesn't describe themself unless they're vain.

So, is Omniscient POV, the one to use when describing characters' physical appearances?

 

[HareBrain]

You certainly don't want to go from close-third into omniscient just to describe their appearance. It is possible to start a chapter in omniscient and zoom into close-third, but describing appearance probably isn't a good enough reason for doing so.

Check the stories or novels you admire -- how much description is there, really, of the POV characters? Probably less than you think. It's tempting when you have a good idea in your head of what your character looks like to try to make sure the reader ends up with exactly the same image, but apart from maybe a few details that are essential to the story, you're probably better off letting the readers construct that image themselves.

 

[The Judge]

I think it depends, though frankly my views on both POV and description might be best ignored since I struggle with both...

My feeling is that you should always ask yourself why you want a detailed inventory of a person's appearance. Does it matter if the hero has indigo-blue eyes, high cheekbones and all the rest of it? Would we feel differently towards him if he has hazel eyes? If not, what is it adding to the scene? Perhaps that is what the problem is, rather than telling/showing.

Even if you're describing the non-POV characters, I still think you need to be careful. I don't know about you, but I don't "see" people I know, and I certainly don't think a list of physical characteristics to myself when they walk into a room. So why should POV character suddenly come out with a long description of his best buddy?

I think description of people needs to come into the scene in a seamless, unobtrusive way, not in a plonk-a-paragraph down method. I prefer description to be fairly brief -- overload too much and the reader will forget most of it anyway -- and focussed.

eg this is a bit from Boneman which I think is very good -- it's an elderly lady who we come to realise isn't quite all there: [FONT=&quot]

White-haired and frail, she clutched a brown handbag to her chest as she shifted from foot to foot. The blue dress she wore was threadbare thin, and red lipstick marked her mouth too generously. [/FONT]

Only 34 words, but look how much that tells us without, in fact, telling us. She's likely to be poor, "threadbare thin"; possibly anxious or excited, "clutched"; and unsteady or perhaps over-excited, "too generously" but wanting to look good "red lipstick", perhaps to impress someone. We're not told her age, but "white-haired and frail" gives an immediate idea of a small, elderly woman. The fashionistas among us will also have noticed a blue dress but brown handbag and made mental connections with poverty (only one handbag) or confusion (no idea things aren't matching).

Now, it could well be these impressions aren't accurate. She might be a bolshie teenager with dyed hair, who believes in deliberately wearing clothes and make-up which are slightly odd. But these two short sentences give us a great start on which the rest of the scene can build with her conversation, her actions and how others react to her.

That description clearly couldn't have come from the woman herself, so if she were your POV character you can't get all of that out in the same way. What you could do instead is have her putting on the lipstick and missing the line of her mouth, or having her sort through her wardrobe looking for her favourite dress and handbag.

If you want help, Rufus, why not post one of your descriptive pieces and we'll see if we can make suggestions.

 

[HareBrain]

The fashionistas among us will also have noticed a blue dress but brown handbag and made mental connections with poverty (only one handbag) or confusion (no idea things aren't matching).

"But ... but that's brilliant, Holmes!"

Sorry, had a Nigel Bruce moment there.

Might be dangerous to rely on all readers picking such things up, however.

 

[The Judge]

And whether Boneman intended it is another matter entirely...

 

[Precise Calibre]

I believe in description of important details primarily. Less important details are not a priority and might be overlooked completely if I deem it neccesary. I may know exactly how my characters look in my mind's eye, but I am not about to force-feed that image into someone-else's head. Even my entry in the "http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/42026-the-challenge-physical-description-as-a-key-to-5.html" is a little more overbearing than I prefer, but I'll use it as an example.

Each of the five soldiers before Mendel stood several inches taller and weighed half again as much - still, he held their gaze. [not a physical description except the height, but his actions show he is fearless, or as close as you can get] Their captain stood off to the side sneering at his quarry. He did not understand the hesitation in his men's eyes. The lone civilian's forearms, free from the short sleeves of his ragged and blood-covered jacket[the jacket, in my story is an important feature of his description, it is now a "trademarked item" that readers can identify him with], were covered in dozens of scars, every one of them older than any war he had fought in[Culhwch said he likes this line even though he's not sure what it means - all it's meant to do is show us three facts. Directly, he's seen a lot of violence in his life. Indirectly, he is well-known and not a nobody to these soldiers - therefore - Indirectly, we know he has fought in several wars]. He took a step forward. The right side of his face twitched and his right hand spasmed into a grasping motion periodically [signs that he may be slightly mentally unhinged without simply stating that he's imbalanced]. The sword on his back, the only immaculate thing about the man, was wickedly long and thin.[his second of two trademark items, important element in the story later on - not magical per-se but...] His darting hazel eyes were dillated, speaking a silent desire for an excuse; any excuse to draw the blade [another indicator that he is close to unhinged and inclined to violence, but capable of controlling himself, I threw in hazel, but it's not actually important].

If I had been writing this in my narrative, I would have probably spread it out a little bit. My intent it to give the reader an outline of what the character is like, define any very important features about them and then let them fill in the rest with their imagination.

 

[The Judge]

Interesting post, PC. What is your take on the POV issue, though? To me it seems in this extract you slide from the captain ("He did not understand...") to Mendel (the captain couldn't know the age of the scars). Was this deliberate? Did you think it gave you something in the description which staying in one POV wouldn't?

 

[Precise Calibre]

The POV in mine is actually from the captain entirely. As I said, it would have been more spread out in an actual narrative. The captain knows the age of the scars as do his men, they know who he is, they know what he's known for (in the longer story, he's a war veteran who has served with all of the people in the scene, in various wars, some of them are as old as him). In a longer narrative I would have exposed how the captain knew him, maybe even respected his achivements but still thought of him in a negative light because of his reputation as a "savage".

I could probably have made it clearer.

 

[The Judge]

No, no -- my mistake. It's always difficult trying to guess the whole from an extract, and a condensed extract at that. Anyway, it's certainly helpful for Rufus.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Close your eyes. Imagine your hands feeling the contours of the object you are describing. And write it down.

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

POV characters-it IS possible to describe them, but you have to set it up very carefully or else you'll sound like you're clucking off.


You can shift POV around characters briefly if you want a main character described, or somehow set it up so they're looking at their reflection somehow-and to make it story worthy, the reflection method is generally best done with a character who goes against who they thought they knew themselves to be.


He stared at himself in the broken mirror, the bloody knife in his hand dripping onto the floor. He had done it, he had killed the woman, just as he was told to do, to save himself. But in doing so, he felt like he didn't safe himself after all. The mirror showed his handsome features, his thick brown hair, his blue eyes, the hawk nose. But he couldn't even recognize himself anymore.

That's an example, and looking at it, a very poor one, but, a style that can work in a story when executed properly.

 

[Ursa major]

The other issue with POVs is what would the POV character notice?

Would they see the new hairstyle? If they are the sort of person who has to be asked "How do you like my new hair?" by their wife, they're unlikely to notice much. But they may well notice other things, such as skirt length on any (attractive) woman other than their wife.


So one could say that a POV character's descriptions give the reader a picture of their world view and their thinking processes.

 

[Rufus Coppertop]

I'll keep doing what I'm doing now, then. Be sparing, and describe what's relevant.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

So one could say that a POV character's descriptions give the reader a picture of their world view and their thinking processes.

Well said.

I think one reason why so many writers are using multiple POV characters these days is because it allows us to have it both ways -- the intimacy of the close third person viewpoint, and the freedom to mention things and describe things the main character either wouldn't know or wouldn't care about enough to notice. But then, you have to alternate viewpoints fairly often. If you bring in another just occasionally to let the reader in on things the main character isn't thinking about, then it will be jarring and obvious.

A character looking at his or her reflection -- in order to get in that bit of description -- is a well-worn cliché. The problem is, it's one of the few ways you can get it done while sticking to one POV. So you have to think of creative ways to handle it, if you want to use it. Or a character might be thinking about how he or she looks now, compared to how he or she looked in the past -- this could also be used to convey a mental state or the stress of recent experiences.

He knew he looked tired. That tight place between his shoulders was still there; he could see himself in his mind's eye hunched forward anxiously. That was not the image he wanted to project. He needed to look strong now, confident. The others needed to believe that he remained in control of the situation. But even the most unobservant would see how the flesh had been melting off his bones, how his clothes hung on him.

Not the best example, but I hope you get the general idea.

 

[Rufus Coppertop]

So, a kid who's being picked on at school for dressing differently, for example, might have a reason to notice himself in the bathroom mirror and consider his appearance.

In such a case, if he's the POV character for that particular scene, it's not going to be too lumpen or cliche, if the writer can keep the dreaded laundry list factor out of it?

 

[Ursa major]

I think that rather than use a prop, such as a mirror, you could have him dress, deciding whether to put on clothes that would exacerbate the bullying or not.

(He doesn't have to see himself wearing them, although a glance in the mirror to admire himself, or see the sad, beaten-down soul he's become in order to avert the problem, wouldn't go amiss.)

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

If he's being bullied because of his appearance (in this case his clothes), then it would be natural for him to feel self-conscious in a way that another character wouldn't. Thinking about what he is wearing, thinking about the possible reaction of other people, would not come across as vain, but as part of his anxiety. Say, he walks into a room and one of the bullies turns to look at him. He wonders which item of dress he'll be teased about today: the vintage bowling shirt; the bell-bottom trousers; his grandfather's old hat with the fishing flies stuck into it. No, it's not any of these. Mr. Bully opens his mouth. "Hey, buddy, niiiice shoes you got there. Did your sister dye them pink for you?"

 

[Rufus Coppertop]

Nice suggestions that I can use!

I've already got his best friend noticing his clothes, because the best friend is well aware of why he's being bullied. I think that works quite well.

In the first version I posted here months ago, someone suggested that it was tell rather than show but in the context, I'm not at all sure they're right.

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

A character looking at his or her reflection -- in order to get in that bit of description -- is a well-worn cliché. The problem is, it's one of the few ways you can get it done while sticking to one POV. So you have to think of creative ways to handle it, if you want to use it. Or a character might be thinking about how he or she looks now, compared to how he or she looked in the past -- this could also be used to convey a mental state or the stress of recent experiences.

That's pretty much how I said. Yes it is a cliche worn thin, but, it really is hard to find other ways of sticking to one POV and describe POV character. Creative ways of handling it-I tend to like to use a character's wisdom and experiences, memories and thoughts on the past and their past actions, and compare themselves present to who they were in the past. That will actually reveal much more about the character than the way they dress, it's a sort of mini-story in its own right, and it can show how they've been shaped and molded, providing reasoning behind this stress or that worry, all the while actually showing off themselves physically.