Questions about agents

[Liz Bent]

I'm currently plugging away at a book manuscript, and I find myself wondering what agents look for. Is it quality of writing that matters most? Do they want to see finished works of specific lengths, or would works-in-progress that show promise be just as good?

 

[Boneman]

I'm currently plugging away at a book manuscript, and I find myself wondering what agents look for. Is it quality of writing that matters most? Do they want to see finished works of specific lengths, or would works-in-progress that show promise be just as good?

Ooh, I think you'll be inundated with replies to this one. Work-in-progress is a no no... unless you bump into an agent in a lift and pitch it to them.(And even then they'll ask to see the finished work!) It should be submitted when it is as good as you can get it - you only get one chance, you gotta make sure (as sure as you utterly can be) that it is the best you can make it.

Only 3 measured postings to go...

 

[Pyan]

While you're waiting for our resident pundits to answer your specific questions, EB, you might find that a look through this forum: Publishing - Chronicles forum may be of help and/or interest to you...

Oh, and Welcome to the Chrons!...

 

[Susan Boulton]

Always approach an agent with a fully written and polished manuscript.

If you send part of a work in progress and they say "send my the rest." Sadly they are not going to wait for 6 to 12 months while you write and polish it.

There are a thousand or so other writers out there with good, finished and polished manuscripts. An agent is in a business of selling manuscripts to publishers. Unless you can prove to him/her you can produce a well written, plotted and saleable manuscript he/she is going to move on.

As to length aim between 90,000 and 120,000. I recently found out that when a manuscript is translated from English to another language it can add up to 20% in the word count. An agent will be looking to sell rights abroad. Length can make or break such a deal.

The most important thing to do is research what is selling in your genre. Not just in the book shops, but what publishers are currently buying for publication in 18 - 24 months (Locus Magazine is a good source, but there are many others)

Then you research the agents that sold that author's work. See if they are a suitable match for you and your work.

You need to produce a list of agents and what they are looking for. This can change as agencies open and close to various genres and sub genres all the time.

Be prepared to submit upwards of a hundred queries per novel. Look for getting maybe 20% request for partials, then about 1-5% full manuscript requests. These odds do go up as you work your way through from your 1st manuscript. You might get no requests for partials, my 1st novel didn't, my 4th seemed to hit the mark more than the average.

Ian M Banks made it with his 10th manuscript I believe(I could be wrong) The average is somewhere between 3rd and 5th. Some get their 1st manuscript taken up, for some it is there 15th or 20th.

 

[Liz Bent]

Thank you for the advice!

I actually am learning a lot from these forums. I thought I had my manuscript fully plotted and half written... then I realized it was far too short for a book length manuscript (only about 17,000 words!). This made me think: was I skimping on my characters or on plot development? So I went back and looked closely at what I had written, and the answer was: yes. There were interesting characters with back stories that I had in my head but didn't put on paper, and there were all sorts of plot developments that were too quick and needed to be drawn out a little more.

So... I had told myself I'd finish the manuscript by the end of December. Hahaha! I doubt I will be able to do that, unless I kick my husband out of the house every night so I can concentrate on my writing.

I think I need to join that word count thread for encouragement to write more... my biggest problem is finding the energy to do good creative writing after a long day at work.

So, I will start researching agents, but I think it will be a long time before I can approach one! Ah, well.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Only 3 measured postings to go...

The Number is NOT Fifteen. (And we don't want that sort of coaching.)


Elizabeth, yes, as others have said, you need to approach them with a finished manuscript that is as good as you can make it.

However, if you think your story is too short, there are two problems that often turn up for new writers: rushing through some of the important scenes — not allowing characters sufficient time to react to what is happening to them, for instance, so that a big moment gets lost in the race to get to the next thing that happens — and leaving out some of the transitions. For instance, at the end of one chapter the characters decide to go on a long journey, and at the beginning of the next they are halfway there, without the writer including so much as a single sentence about packing up, or worrying about the hardships ahead, or any of the physical challenges they would have met up to that point. These things may only amount to a short paragraph here and there, but they do add up, and they give the impression of a unified story, rather than a series of episodes strung together.

Of course it might be that neither one of these is your problem, but they are things you might look for in what you have already.

 

[Liz Bent]

Thanks, Teresa- I'm in the process of rethinking the structure of the entire book (which actually started as a short story), and I think some of the new structure will include more time for changes to occur. Today I began by rewriting the timeline for events in the book.

 

[Brian G Turner]

If you read the Writers and Artists yearbook, it provides a list of agencies and what sort of script they are looking for. One of the most important details you'll find from researching that is that not many agents will specifically ask for science fiction or fantasy, so take note of that especially.

 

[mygoditsraining]

If you read the Writers and Artists yearbook, it provides a list of agencies and what sort of script they are looking for. One of the most important details you'll find from researching that is that not many agents will specifically ask for science fiction or fantasy, so take note of that especially.

Just to add to this, it's worth sitting down with the WAY and checking the agent's websites for up to date submission guidelines. Some are outright closed, some are closed with time limits, and some only look for very specific things.

 

[Loaded]

After reading many of the posts on this thread and on the the threads of others, it is clear the extraordinary difficulty experienced in having a work accepted by an agent, and then there is the publisher to overcome. Each agent out there collectively claims to receiving hundreds of manuscripts and therefore one needs to gain the advantage somehow over all the rest of the budding authors out there.

But herein lies the problem for authors such as myself. I don't mind admitting to writing cheap literature and this problem hinders my success rate. At present I have submitted over 456 MSS and not had one accepted. Not that I'm bothered, because I'm going to Ibiza next week on package deal with Thomson Late Deals.

In order to stick my literary neck out and gain the advantage over every other author in the race, I'm going to give each agent from now on 85% on my works. That should at last see my work in print.

Please reply if you think there is problem with this tactic.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

You are kidding, right? 85% of nothing is still nothing, and if an agent thinks he or she can't sell your books to publishers he or she is certainly not going to represent you. You can't bribe an agent into taking your book on, with or without imaginary sums of money.

I won't say that it's the worst tactic I can think of, but it's the worst one I've ever heard of.

 

[Loaded]

Well, Teresa, there's always a first for every tactic. I don't need the money and have even considered going to 90% to coerce these agent creatures. I would offer the whole hog, but I have determined since my literary career began to donate 10% of my earnings to greyhounds in retirement.

 

[mygoditsraining]

I don't mind admitting to writing cheap literature

Can I ask about this bit? There are markets for pretty much every genre of writing, from the pulpy to the obscure, from the pornographic to the chaste, from the sublime (as it were) right up to the ridiculous.

What do you consider "cheap"? What do you write? Does your writing potentially appeal to a current (or future, always think a couple of years ahead) market? If so, who are the agents and publishers that deal in your market?

By 456 manuscripts, I'm guessing you mean manuscript submissions (unless you've written 456 individual books, in which case...wow) and perhaps maybe that figure is an indicator that maybe a more fundamental change is necessary than the financial.

Agents, at least reputable ones, aren't going to take you on even at 85%. If they went in for that sort of deal - agreeing to handle a client desperate enough to accept it - then publishers wouldn't touch the book with a bargepole.

A more sensible option is to go back to your manuscript. Find an editor to look at it for you, even just a short sample if you can't afford much else. If you don't want to do that, take your writing to a writing group and get some feedback that way. Failing all else, send it round a bunch of your friends and have them read it.

Now here's the hard part - if your friends hand it back and say, "it's great! Brilliant! You should be published!"...they are lying to you. They're not being mean. They're trying to be nice, because that's what friends do. They encourage one another, and sometimes it's not for the best.

Even well-polished manuscripts have issues. There are extremely popular books out there that are full of errors - typographical errors, plot holes, people who mysteriously change sex or simply disappear - and you can bet your life you've got them in your book too. The reason you can't see them is because while you've been doing your endless edits and re-writes, you've got stuck in a loop.

I can't comment on your writing, because I've never seen any of it. I do know the mindset of the burgeoning author, because I am one myself.

Harden your heart and take a good, long look at what you're writing. Because it is an absolute certainty that if your writing has problems, then you will never, ever get past the slush pile.

(of course, brilliant writing is just the start - you need to write the right thing for the market, find an agent who is looking to sell in that market that doesn't have a full stable, a compelling pitch, and a whole bundle of luck)

Of course if you just want to see your book printed and don't care about the money, there's always Lulu or one of the other print-on-demand services for self-publishing.

 

[Loaded]

Can I ask about this bit? There are markets for pretty much every genre of writing, from the pulpy to the obscure, from the pornographic to the chaste, from the sublime (as it were) right up to the ridiculous.

What do you consider "cheap"? What do you write? Does your writing potentially appeal to a current (or future, always think a couple of years ahead) market? If so, who are the agents and publishers that deal in your market?

Cheap literature is an art in itself. It demands the eradication of every discipline imaginable: no plot, no structure, no character, no descriptive strokes of genius, and no atmosphere; just endless streams of consciousness wrested from a confused mind. The target audience for this genre is everyone could avail themselves of the literature as a release from reality and escape into moronity. It can also be accessed by a world-wide audience, since google now allows for cheap translations. As for the agents and publishers, they need to re-educate themselves and their businesses to facilitate this new and exciting genre.

By 456 manuscripts, I'm guessing you mean manuscript submissions (unless you've written 456 individual books, in which case...wow) and perhaps maybe that figure is an indicator that maybe a more fundamental change is necessary than the financial.

I consider cheap literature above the base exercise of editing, and it would by sacrosanct to meddle with its soul.

Agents, at least reputable ones, aren't going to take you on even at 85%. If they went in for that sort of deal - agreeing to handle a client desperate enough to accept it - then publishers wouldn't touch the book with a bargepole.

A more sensible option is to go back to your manuscript. Find an editor to look at it for you, even just a short sample if you can't afford much else. If you don't want to do that, take your writing to a writing group and get some feedback that way. Failing all else, send it round a bunch of your friends and have them read it.

I may gift you with a sample of my art in cheap literature, but as regards 'friends' most of them pissed off many years ago, so showing them my art wouldn't be an option.

Now here's the hard part - if your friends hand it back and say, "it's great! Brilliant! You should be published!"...they are lying to you. They're not being mean. They're trying to be nice, because that's what friends do. They encourage one another, and sometimes it's not for the best.

Even well-polished manuscripts have issues. There are extremely popular books out there that are full of errors - typographical errors, plot holes, people who mysteriously change sex or simply disappear - and you can bet your life you've got them in your book too. The reason you can't see them is because while you've been doing your endless edits and re-writes, you've got stuck in a loop.

I can't comment on your writing, because I've never seen any of it. I do know the mindset of the burgeoning author, because I am one myself.

Harden your heart and take a good, long look at what you're writing. Because it is an absolute certainty that if your writing has problems, then you will never, ever get past the slush pile.

(of course, brilliant writing is just the start - you need to write the right thing for the market, find an agent who is looking to sell in that market that doesn't have a full stable, a compelling pitch, and a whole bundle of luck)

Of course if you just want to see your book printed and don't care about the money, there's always Lulu or one of the other print-on-demand services for self-publishing.

I've never really had much money, and therefore presenting agents with upwards of 85% to have the honour of being involved in my art wouldn't be losing money, because it's money I don't possess, and I'm sure you'll agree: one cannot lose what one doesn't have.

 

[mygoditsraining]

OK, well, nobody can say I didn't at least try and say something constructive...and got trolled for making the effort.

 

[Loaded]

In all seriousness, mygoditsraining, you're a little too critical of yourself. Your remarks are entirely constructive and have been taken into my understanding, and I thank you for them. I shall certainly be entertaining the prospect of altering the way I look at the whole business of publishing.

 

[The Judge]

I don't think mgir was being critical of himself, Loaded. His remarks were indeed, entirely constructive, perhaps more so than the initial post warranted. It would appear to be your reaction to his remarks which suggested to him you were a troll and nothing more.

Frankly, I am not at all sure if your posts are being made in seriousness or not. If you are serious (and I have seen posts on a par with this which were entirely, and regrettably, serious), you have an awful lot to learn about writing and publishing. The best way to learn would be to read a lot more and say a lot less. If you are not serious, but just trying to raise a laugh, well, you'll find that humour doesn't always translate as well as it might. And the best way to fit in here would be to let us get to know you, and for you to judge the mood of a thread before jumping in with both feet.

If you are in truth an aspiring writer, and you wish to learn, then hello and welcome to the Chrons. There is plenty of information and useful advice here for writers of all experience if they are willing to think about and apply what they have read. It would help the rest of us to advise you, though, if we knew how much credence to attach to your comments to date.

 

[Loaded]

Thank you for the comment, Judge, and for your solicitude regarding my literature. My aim is to learn all the tricks of the trade regarding having one's art published, and I may even be so bold as to offer my own advice also to authors making their first tentative steps to becoming confident in their ability to project their work onto the world's stage.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Well, Teresa, there's always a first for every tactic.

And what makes you think this would be the first time someone has tried this tactic? I can assure you, there is no tactic so stupid that it hasn't been tried by some writer somewhere who is desperate to be published. The reason you haven't heard of anyone trying your plan before is simple: it didn't work.

Anyway, I think you are just spouting absolutely unmitigated nonsense in order to see how the rest of us respond. We have no patience with trolls on this site, just so you know.

 

[Loaded]

That's a vitriolic post, if I may be so bold as to say so, madam, but in this land of democracy, Teresa, each individual has the right to post their thoughts and make every attempt not to insult other citizens by calling into question what's 'stupid' and what isn't. I have not entertained such language of insult, unlike you have. As to your accusations of 'spouting unmitigated nonsense', clearly your opinion of others resides more in the sink of slang and ad hominem rather than clear, crisp, and well thought out criticism, as my posts are nestled in.