Asimov inconsistency; mistake or intentional?

[green_emi]

Hi I'm new here so I'm too sure if this has come up before:

At the end of Foundation and Earth, Daneel is telling Trevize, Pelorat and Bliss about his history. He mentions that an old friend of his (Giskard) came up with the Zeroth law of robotics ("A robot may not injure humanity or through in-action allow humanity to come to harm").

Now, in the last book of the robot series Robots And Empire, it is actually Daneel who comes up with the Zeroth law. What I've been wondering is if this was simply a mistake by Asimov, or if it was Daneel's memory becoming faulty (or more human?) that attributed this deed to his dead friend.

I know that in Asimov's "world" there are a few inconsistencies, even himself said it, but this one has made me wonder quite a bit...

What do you think?

 

[Doctor Crankenstein]

It's probably just a mishap. I've never noticed it before to be honest.

 

[acsa]

This inconsistency is known and is dealt with in "Foundation victory" Triumph, as far as I remember. You have to consider also that although in the discussion Daneel came up it in word, but it was a process initiated by the mentalic abilities and the 0th law was in fact implemented and applied by Giskard first.

 

[acsa]

Sorry i meant "Foundation's triumph"

 

[acsa]

A much stronger inconsistency is in Foundation's Edge. Gendibal has already a long, important work done in the matter of discovering the activities of the anti-mules. There must be also record of this. Also the First Speaker knows it in detail, and it is also presented to the Speakers' table. And this work is his key to become First Speaker. What is then done at the end to forget about his discovery of Gaia? What is his carrier based on? Is the only the case Trevice/Gaia modified and his he searching further for the anti-mules? How can he become First Solo based on a very serious but seemingly fictional problem?

I suppose somebody should write a book about this complicated matter. Somehow it will be resolved since Gaia becomes active after Trevice's decision. This is detected by the 2nd Foundation and I suppose they are becoming a sort of allies. Since they were already a tool, they become an active tool by integrating the mentalic factor in the psychohistory. Probably it becomes a stabilizing factor on one side. On the other side wars happen since the spreading of the mentalic societies is a very strange process.

 

[acsa]

Sorry, again an error, I'm in hurry: "Is only the case Trevice/Gaia modified in his mind and is he searching further for the anti-mules?"

 

[green_emi]

This inconsistency is known and is dealt with in "Foundation victory" Triumph, as far as I remember. You have to consider also that although in the discussion Daneel came up it in word, but it was a process initiated by the mentalic abilities and the 0th law was in fact implemented and applied by Giskard first.

Quite right I hadn't thought of that, but Giskard wasn't the first to apply the 0th law successfully

 

[acsa]

Quite right I hadn't thought of that, but Giskard wasn't the first to apply the 0th law successfully

Wasn't he? As far as I remember he deleted the memories of Vasilia and then later decided to let the destruction of the Earth go. I think the reality and application of the 0th law is really thight connected to the mentalic abilities. See 2nd Foundation as a tool of it. Correct me if this is not right.

 

[ghost8772]

Wasn't he? As far as I remember he deleted the memories of Vasilia and then later decided to let the destruction of the Earth go. I think the reality and application of the 0th law is really thight connected to the mentalic abilities. See 2nd Foundation as a tool of it. Correct me if this is not right.

giskard was able to adjust memories etc... but his ability to operate under a 0th law was imperfect. he shutdown when he was forced to actually kill a human. Daneel apparently had no such problems.

 

[acsa]

giskard was able to adjust memories etc... but his ability to operate under a 0th law was imperfect. he shutdown when he was forced to actually kill a human. Daneel apparently had no such problems.

That's true. But he also knew, that he is right, and he will circumvent his own limitations by making Daneel a mentalic.

 

[hormone]

In "The Naked Sun" (part of the robot series), the Solarian's do not detect that Daneel is a robot despite being the sophisticated roboticists in the Spacer worlds. However in the sequel, "The Robots of Dawn", Daneel says that the murderer of a robot on Aurora could not have been killed by a humaniform robot like Daneel since all Spacers can distinguish any kind of robot, including humaniform robots, from humans. On this basis Elijah rules out that a robot could have committed the roboticide.