Help! Looking dark fantasy series with multiple point of view

[berg]

Hi
I am a huge fan of George R.R. Martin but I will forget how to read if I have to wait for new books in his series. So can anyone suggest some readings for me?
Criteria:
Must be a series (min. 3 books)
Must be dark - the more grey the characters are the better (GRRM is sometimes a little to black and white)
Must have a big universe of characters (I am reading Assasins Apprentice by Robyn Hobb and it is not gritty enough plus I don't like that everything revolves around one character)
Please no talking dragons or farries - Again I love GRRM for driving forward his books on characters not purely magic - although I do like the feel of something epic is about to happen. (The Hedge Knight series are good reads, but a little dull)

Been advised in the direction of Brent Weeks and Tom Loyd, is this the way to go?
Really hope that you guys can help me out here!

 

[Stylus]

I’d recommend The First Law trilogy by Joe Abercrombie – it checks everything on your list and is a thumping good read (one caveat is that it is definitely a trilogy, rather than a series – the first two books don’t stand up, plot-wise, as individuals).

Brent Weeks’ Night Angel trilogy is another that matches your criteria, as you say, but I’m less keen on them, as I felt the books lost their way a little. Good enough to pass the time, but ultimately unsatisfying for me.

Hope this helps.

 

[elvet]

Add Steven Erikson to your list. All 9 (soon to be 10) books in the Malazan book of the Fallen series are just what you are looking for.

 

[Tansy]

Sounds exactly like Erikson to me lol

 

[soulsinging]

I’d recommend The First Law trilogy by Joe Abercrombie – it checks everything on your list and is a thumping good read (one caveat is that it is definitely a trilogy, rather than a series – the first two books don’t stand up, plot-wise, as individuals).

Seconded!

 

[Clansman]

Add Steven Erikson to your list. All 9 (soon to be 10) books in the Malazan book of the Fallen series are just what you are looking for.

The only problem with this recommendation is that Berg doesn't want a whole lot of magic. The Malazan Book of the Fallen is replete with loads of magic (face it, Quick Ben is a walking deux et machina), gods, and dragons, amongst other magical creatures. It is also about the darkest and grittiest epic fantasy going. The magic, though, may be too much for berg.

I am currently strongly urging every fantasy reader I know to get Paul Kearney's re-issued Monarchies of God (five books put into two omnibus volumes, Hawkwood and the Kings and The Century of the Soldier). His Macht series is excellent too, with The Ten Thousand last year and Corvus about to be released. The Macht series has virtually no magic, and the characters have lots of shades of grey. Very gritty and bloody, and a great read, and a lower fantasy even than GRRM.

You might try The Wars of Light and Shadow, my personal favourite. That series is HUGE, with lots of characters and sub-plots, but without 10 billiion POVs like Martin or Jordan. It focusses on four or five main characters, two in particular, and the characterization in it is second-to-none. Lots of grit, too, but lots of hope: very balanced. Some of the most beautiful writing I have ever seen, it was made to be read slowly and carefully, instead of quickly digested. Very complex, without any dangling threads or wild goose chase sub-plots. It was recently re-issued, and the first one is called The Curse of the Mistwraith, and this volume may seem slow to some readers (I didn't think so), but it is setting up an 11-book series, and each book is a BIG one. The ninth is about to be published, so the series will likely be finished in the next couple of years. It has magic, not quite as much as Erikson, but it also has a lot of context.

 

[Mouse]

You might like J.V. Jones's Sword of Shadows series.

 

[K. Riehl]

You can't get any darker than Glen Cooks' Black Company series. I like them as much or more than the Erikson series.

There is magic, but it is used as tool rather than being the center of the story. Dark Gods and magicians, no fairy creatures.

 

[Heather Myst]

As others have suggested Joe Abercrombie's First Law series is right up your alley. I also would add his Best Served Cold even though it is a stand alone. I also agree with the Brent Weeks suggestion.
J.V.Jones Sword of Shadows is not as dark as the above books but I still agree with the recomendation. You also might want to look at John Marco's Tyrants and Kings series. Anything by Fiona McIntosh and David Durham's Acacia series are a couple of other possibilities. Good luck!

 

[berg]

Thanks a lot guys!
As you describe "The Wars of Light and Shadow" this seems to be my kind of book. But I am just a little concerned about the title, seems to indicate ultimate good and bad guys... Is this the case?

I think I will look into the "First Law" series.

Clansman can you elaborate a little on the Paul Kearney books? They sound interesting.

Thx again all!

 

[Clansman]

Thanks a lot guys!
As you describe "The Wars of Light and Shadow" this seems to be my kind of book. But I am just a little concerned about the title, seems to indicate ultimate good and bad guys... Is this the case?

Thx again all!

No, there are not ultimate good and bad guys, though you will definitely start cheering for the side that seems to continually lose. The major theme of the series is that history is written by the winners, and the truth of a conflict is often hidden by the lie that is the glory of war. It is intelligent, adult fantasy, but not as nihilistic as Abercrombie or Martin. There are also themes of personal responsibility, and some major, in-your-face criticisms of the power structures that develop in organized religion. Excellent, tight plotting, lots of tragedy, balanced by hope. No Dark Lords, no impeccable heroes. Great characters, and the best character development ever.

However, it is a slow read. Reading it fast leads to incomprehension. It is a porterhouse steak kind of fantasy, which takes slow, deliberate chewing. Her style is engineered specifically to make you slow down, and think about what you are reading. Definitely not for everybody, but to me, its the best there is these days.

 

[alternicity]

Prince of Nothing series; Scott Bakker. Fits all your criteria.

 

[berg]

Clansman,
The series sounds really interesting! I don't mind to stop and think when I read a book, lying awake trying to figure out why someone did something in a book is part of the splendor of good storytelling. But when you write it is a slow read, I hope it isn't because of endless "useless" information for a character obsessed reader. I.e. is it 3 pages on how a tree looks in the dusk?
For an example of what I think a slow but boring read think "Mists of Avalon" by Marion Zimmer Bradley.

And how about the Kearney books?

Thx again!

 

[Clansman]

Clansman,
The series sounds really interesting! I don't mind to stop and think when I read a book, lying awake trying to figure out why someone did something in a book is part of the splendor of good storytelling. But when you write it is a slow read, I hope it isn't because of endless "useless" information for a character obsessed reader. I.e. is it 3 pages on how a tree looks in the dusk?
For an example of what I think a slow but boring read think "Mists of Avalon" by Marion Zimmer Bradley.

And how about the Kearney books?

Thx again!

Wurts does use description, but there is nothing in her books that is infodump. Her descriptive passages I would call things of beauty, but they are important, both for setting context and for giving you information about the setting and the story that involves the development of the plot or a character. However, as I said above, her writing is not for everyone, as it is a very, very deep read. Like Martin and Erikson, her books support multiple re-reads because there is so much going on or you forget stuff. Also, there are so many layers of context in Wurts. I am on my third re-read of the series, and new stuff is being revealed to me all the time. Plus, there is lots of action.

Kearney's stuff, on the other hand, is proof that epic fantasy does not have to be long and multi-volumed to be epic. The Monarchies of God is a quick, fast read, but with a hard driving plot, interesting characters, and a pace that spins your head. It is not brain candy, but neither does it have the depth or reach of a big epic series like A Song of Ice and Fire or The Wars of Light and Shadow. Where you would need a few months to read the up to the eighth and latest volume in Wurts' Wars..., you'd need about a week, maybe two, for both volumes of The Monarchies of God.

In answer to you, jackoliver, no, it is not a children's story by any stretch, but neither is it nihilistic. It is balanced, and realistic (at least, as far as fantasy can be), and tackles major human themes with the gloves off (which fantasy lets you do).

If you want an idea of what Wurts' writing is like, try her stand-alone To Ride Hell's Chasm. It follows a similar structure to all of her books, where the first half of the book is filled with suspense and intrigue, and somewhere in the middle, all hell breaks loose and you can't put the thing down until it's done. The nice thing is that the story is contained in one volume, instead of the eleven that will make up Wars... when it is finished.

 

[Boneman]

You can't get any darker than Glen Cooks' Black Company series. I like them as much or more than the Erikson series.

There is magic, but it is used as tool rather than being the center of the story. Dark Gods and magicians, no fairy creatures.

I second that: just bought the trilogy in one volume, and it is very good...

 

[Lord_Jakir]

I'll second the calls for Cook, Erikson and Bakker. I'll throw into the mix a slightly older series by C. S. Friedman, The Coldfire Trilogy. Some of the best character development you'll ever find in Spec Fic. And Dark as hell. Friedman's got a thing for unconventional takes on things. You'll see.

 

[Pedro Del Mar]

How about the Mistborn Trilogy by Brandon Sanderson - absolutely excellent - just going through the final part now, the first two were astounding

 

[woodsman]

I loved Cooks stuff.

Erikson, whilst well written is vast and overly complex for my tastes and there's huge amounts of magic/magical creatures etc.

Abercrombie I was bitterly disappointed by. I read the first two books and enjoyed them, lent them to my flatmate - he read them and predicted the third book and the ending. I so wanted to laugh in his face and say Joe wrote darker more real stuff his wouldn't have an ending like that, but he was right. A few chapters ruined a whole series for me.

Best Served Cold is well written but very similar to any of the other revenge stories lying about, read Dumas if you will.