How does the WoT match up?

Kierkegaurdian

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Hello! I am a big fan of the Wheel of Time. I have read a whole slew of other fantasy series (Eddings, Brooks, Tad Williams, etc) but I like the Wheel the best. I am really curious / interested in some other series (specifically A Song of Ice and Fire, Malazan Book of the Fallen) and was wondering if people who are more well-read could tell me how good they are, how similar or dissimilar they are to WoT, etc. Political intrigue is a plus, as is a complicated magic system. Looking for the next one to obsess over after AMoL comes out next year!
 
Welcome, to the Chronicles Network, Kierkegaurdian. I have read all the books in the A Song of Ice and Fire series. The only problem I have with the series is it takes George RR Martin a long time to write a book.

ASOIAF doesn't have a complicated magic system. I've never read a fantasy where magic made so little difference. There is magic, and it does play a part, but it isn't prominent in the first 4 books.

ASOIAF is full of far more political intrigue than the Wheel of Time. It has the most realistic characters I've ever read in a fantasy. The "protagonists" often lose as much as they win, and HBO is currently preparing a series that will air sometime in the coming Spring.


If you do decide to read the series, I would finish the first book before watching the first season on television.
 
K, I will say that WoT was the best at epic fantasy until RJ let the series slide so badly in books 7-10. As at book 6, 15 years ago I would have agreed with you. However, fantasy has grown so much since then, that RJ lost that title for me a long time ago. This being said, WoT has come back from the edge of the abyss with the last three books, and Sanderson is doing a fine job of bringing it home.

Right now, in terms of great big sprawling multi-volume epic fantasy, there are three shining stars:

Far and away the most popular is George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire, which is very, very different from WoT. The fantastical elements (except for dragons) are more in the background, and political intrigue is absolutely huge. It is extremely dark and grim, and it is fantasy for adults to be sure. No farmboys finding a magical sword, instantly becoming expert swordsmen, and being mentored by kindly old wizards. We have hard-bitten warriors, fighting kings, cynical advisors, cunning, manipulative women in the backrooms and bedrooms, and a story that steadily builds for three of the four published novels, and then slows a bit in the fourth. Excellent characters and unexpected twists dominate the story, which is mainly political, but with plenty of foreshadowing of something big and supernatural building. The big down-side to this series is that GRRM has been writing and re-writing the fifth book for over five years (he is apparently almost finished (but no one is holding their breath)), and he is very easily distracted by things like football, comic and fantasy conventions, and by other projects, such as the forthcoming HBO series of the first book in this series, A Game of Thrones.

The Malazan Book of the Fallen is another huge epic. Steven Erikson and Ian Esselmont (they each created the world, but write their own books in it) have created a hugely complex and sprawling place. You don't begin to start figuring out the over-arching storyline until the end of the third book. It's complexity puts some people off, and it, like ASoIaF, is relentlessly grim, but the polar opposite in terms of magic. The fantastical and the supernatural are elements of daily life, where gods take part in the politics of humans. Erikson in particular is extremely productive, and puts the books out in this series about once a year. It wraps up this coming year with the last volume in the Book of the Fallen (The Crippled God), but other novels are planned as prequels, etc. The sky is the limit, as there are countless stories to be told in that universe.

I consider the best big epic series going is Janny Wurts' Wars of Light and Shadow. Not as dark as Martin or Erikson, this is a massive series that has eight books out, and the ninth is in the final stages of editing. Definite release in 2011. After that, two more books finish the series. Intense plotting and amazing characterization, her series does not suffer from "five-billion POV" curse that seems to plague Jordan and Martin, and to a lesser extent Erikson. The series starts with Curse of the Mistwraith, taking place over 500 years of conflict. You will find by the end of the first book that this is not fantasy lite, but like Erikson and Martin, she is not afraid to hit her readers hard with a grim dose of reality. However, in contrast to them, she tempers the reality with moments of rare beauty and the hope of something better than what has gone before. The themes are strong yet subtle, the characterization is second-to-none (you won't always like them, but they are so darned real), and the plotting is intricate like Martin and Erikson. Her writing style deliberately slows your reading pace down, as she is trying to get you to see things from different perspectives, instead of just entertaining you. There are several different magical systems, and some of the themes are borne out in how they work. Also, music is used as one of the magical systems, which just makes sense to me (it is the closest thing to magic on this planet).

Each of the three I would say are better in just about every respect compared to Jordan (and I was one of the original Jordan fans waaay back in 1990), especially in terms of characterization, tightness of the story, better plotting, and a more mature story line (no omnipotent Dark Lords that somehow get beaten in any of the three (well, kind of not in Malazan, but you can figure that out for yourself when you read it). Jordan is what went before, and he created a stunning series, but with obvious flaws. The three I list above take fantasy to the level of literature.

One further consideration is Sanderson's new series, The Stormlight Archive, starting with The Way of Kings. It is projected to be ten huge books long, and Sanderson is a proven workhorse who writes books quickly. He looks to be something of a Stephen King in the fantasy genre, based on his productivity.
 
Thank you for the in-depth discussion! I really appreciate the analysis ... I think I might pick up the first of each of these series, and test the waters. I hear nothing but good things about ASOIAF (minus the delays with book 5, of course) and might start with that. Although, the fact that the other two series are almost complete is a bonus. I did begin to get tired of WoT after there were 11 books ... I think Egwene is camping outside of Tar Valon from book 7 to 12! In any event, I will see if I can hunt down the first of each series ... I am a fairly fast reader so once I finish a few that I am on now (finishing up Urth of the New Sun and The Confusion) I will explore.

Edit: I think I am getting Way of Kings for Christmas, so I will start on that as well.
 
Happy reading to you!

I will also suggest that you also stay away from the George RR Martin sub forums here, and pretty much anywhere else, until you're well into the series. Spoilers are a true killer in ASOIAF
 
Clansman summed up what is IMO the best fantasy series around atm.

For myself:

Steven Erikson
Janny Wurts
George R.R. Martin

Also totally agree with his description regarding WOT, I have loved what Brandon has done so much that I have just purchased his new book WoK.



Clansman I simply love the way Janny has brought the Barding ability to the forefront in her epic fantasy, she's had me fighting back the urge to sob on more then one occasion and her use of magic and seeking permission places a wonderful spin to it.

Erikson has also almost brought me to my knees although with tears of outrage at the incredible ending that is the Stone of Dogs saga! Story telling at it's absolute finest. I walked around in a daze at work for a couple of days after finishing DHG.

Just about to start on MOI, I cant see how it could possibly be any better then the first two books (both of which I read twice immediately, that's how good I found them).
 
Happy reading to you!

I will also suggest that you also stay away from the George RR Martin sub forums here, and pretty much anywhere else, until you're well into the series. Spoilers are a true killer in ASOIAF

I learned the hard way :(

But I have managed to un-see the things I saw, so I will no doubt have forgotten when I do read them. Just to be sure, I will put off starting for first one for a little bit.



EDIT: Which of the Wars of Light and Shadow books should I start with? I looked to see if I could get them online, and I am a little confused by the structure of the series with Arcs and everything. Don't give two much away :)
 
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I learned the hard way :(

But I have managed to un-see the things I saw, so I will no doubt have forgotten when I do read them. Just to be sure, I will put off starting for first one for a little bit.



EDIT: Which of the Wars of Light and Shadow books should I start with? I looked to see if I could get them online, and I am a little confused by the structure of the series with Arcs and everything. Don't give two much away :)

The Curse of the Mistwraith is the first book in the series.
 
I learned the hard way :(

But I have managed to un-see the things I saw, so I will no doubt have forgotten when I do read them. Just to be sure, I will put off starting for first one for a little bit.

EDIT: Which of the Wars of Light and Shadow books should I start with? I looked to see if I could get them online, and I am a little confused by the structure of the series with Arcs and everything. Don't give two much away :)

Arc 1: Curse of the Mistwraith
Arc 2: Ships of Merior, Warhost of Vastmark
Arc 3 (titled The Alliance of Light): Fugitive Prince, Grand Conspiracy, Peril's Gate, Traitor's Knot, and Stormed Fortress
Arc 4 (titled The Sword of the Canon): Initiate's Trial (written, currently in pre-publication) and Destiny's Conflict (forthcoming)
Arc 5: Song of the Mysteries (forthcoming).
There are three short stories with the series as well: "Child of Prophecy", "Sundering Star" and "Reins of Destiny". Save the stories for after you have read a few books, as they will mean more to you. Here is a link to Wurts' bibliography thread on this forum (stay away from the speculation, discussion threads!):

http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/44333-janny-wurts-publications-list.html

These books must be read in the order I set out above! Just like WoT, ASoIaF, and Malazan, go out of order and you're completely lost, especially in this series, as each book builds on foundation laid down in the ones that went before. There was stuff coming back in Stormed Fortress that I hadn't seen since Curse of the Mistwraith.

Every bit has importance, so don't try to skim through parts that might seem to be filler, because you will lose reading pleasure, and be screwed later on. The same goes for ASoIaF and Malazan.

And stay away from spoiler threads for all of the suggestions! The Wars of Light and Shadow and the Malazan books are also super spoilerific (I invented that word), so avoid chat areas like the plague until you are done the currently written books.
 

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