Wiggum, First of all I hope you do not pop in here today.... I hope you enjoy your Packers winning the game! I'm a Bears fan, but that doesn't mean I'll cheer for the Steelers over my ol' Black & Blue Division buds.
Second, I was trying to warn biodroid that that if he's looking for Tolkien, Howard, Eddings, Feist, or Jordan clones, then he's out of luck. Martin builds his story on characters who grasp our sentimentalities because of who they are and not who they kill. ASOIAF characters charm us with their wits, their foibles, and their loyalties much more than their skills with swords (although we all love BFS), their firebolts, or their places in prophecies.
Obviously my communication skills are as poor as ever... hence, my need to explain my previous post. That's probably why my stories are not on the shelves of your favorite bookstores.
I agree with most of the above. i used LOTR for comparison becuase the OP used it in his/her question and becuase I've read LOTR a number of times, and fairly recently. I must say that I was blown away by how simplistic and shallow LOTR felt after reading ASOIAF. that's not to say i didn't like it, only that it leiterally pales in comparision.
I think GRRM is head and shoulders above the level of anyone else who has ever written epic, or not so epic, fantasy.
I agree with you and Wiggum to a certain extent.
We, let me say "I", have undergone a change in expectations for fantasy over the years. My first fantasy was Narnia. Then came Middle-earth. Tolkien's world was quickly followed by Pern, Hyperborea, Helium, Shannarra, Ill-earth, Dune, Earthsea, Prydain, Midkemia, Dragonlance, etc... in endless sequence... and I reread them all at least once. But I always reread Tolkien once a year.
I think Tolkien's themes were so numerous, so important, and so unbound by age that Middle-earth grew with me. As a child, I admired the warriors. In my teens, I was awed by Quenya, the First Age, and Feanor. In college, I was drawn to the bonds of friendship. In my twenties, I was amazed by the themes of Jesus' work displayed by Frodo, Aragorn, and Gandalf. Later, I found that Sam's and Faramir's simple determination and Theoden's, Gollum's, and Eowyn's searches for redemption are at the heart of the story.
I had found that I'd left the stories of Burroughs, Feist, and Howard behind. The did not seem to want to grow with me... they have remained as fond memories of my youth, but they've not found a place in my adulthood.
Let me quote Benedick from Shakespeare's
Much Ado About Nothing...
I may chance have some odd quirks and remnants of wit broken on me, because I have railed so long against marriage: but doth not the appetite alter? A man loves the meat in his youth that he cannot endure in his age. Shall quips and sentences and these paper bullets of the brain awe a man from the career of his humour? No, the world must be peopled.
The point is that my appetite (and I think the appetites of almost all of us) change over time.
Have I gotten rid of Middle-earth? No. But I have not read it now for eight years. Maybe I've milked it for all that I can... or am able with my intellect and experience.
A Song of Ice and Fire is the best of the best of what I currently want to read. Political schemes, familial connections, romantic machinations, and religious upheavals against a grown up, fantastic, medieval backdrop with limited magic is exactly what I want... and Martin delivers in full.
Dan Simmons'
Illium is right there, too. But, in my opinion, his sequel,
Olympos, fell short of the mark.
You'll find that not everyone loves ASOIAF. This does not mean ASOIAF stinks or that they don't appreciate the best. I think it means they are not at a place in life where this story resonates with them... I've read Dickens, Tolstoy, Hardy, and More, but I just don't get their works. My guess is that I just don't understand their cultural motivations and language usage or else I'm just too limited in my ability to relax and absorb.
Another aspect of ASOIAF that is different from other fantasy, except Malazan, is that Martin starts the story at full speed and expects his readers to follow. The gaps get filled in as the story progresses because Martin does not waste copious time with long set ups... he gets to the action and then fills us in with memories at a later time when we have begun to long for that information.
Also, I use the glossary endlessly. Most fantasy books have a list of dramatis personae, but I stop using them after the third chapter. In Martin's book, not only am I still using the glossaries after four books (and I consider myself to be a pretty, big, ASOIAF geek), but I have to go online to
The Tower of the Hand and
The Citadel for further information and clarifications.
biodroid, Please do not click on the above links until you feel you're ready. You'll find out that Martin puts in many plot twists.
I don't mean to say that all of Martin's work is stellar or that it currently speaks to me. I've read some of his older stort stories and was not impressed. But I have read
Fevre Dream and was blown away. I think he's grown as a writer... as we've grown as readers. He knows how to hold tension... and hold it... and hold it... and hold it...
If epic means a long story, ambitious themes, real characters, historical authenticity, a cast of thousands (literally), deadly situations, major plot twists, multiple wars, numerous socio-religio-ethnic-political organizations, and a lethal game of thrones, then ASOIAF is epic.
