The Vampire's weakness

[Tinsel]

Since Buffy appeared to have a strong sense of morality, (the whole idea about her fighting to keep her head held high). Why didn't the vampires attack her self esteem, her sense of fairness, her moral strength? They only scratched the surface and she was able to not just turn them away, but to kill them outright.

 

[Tinsel]

One more note to add to my original post, and it is a defense for the vampires. The vampires did have energy and it was fine acting, but they acted more like villains rather than the undead. I mean give me a break, Willow wasn't even scared. Okay, so, I am not suggesting that they were unfit for the job, but I do feel that this show has set the sub standard for vampire lore or else it is because of female authors trying to make vampires happen. I only watched a few episodes of the Vampire Chronicles and I like Buffy over them because Buffy had more magnetism in general. She has a capacity to influence other people because of her uprightness and some of the characters did offset each other so that you could follow along, yet I hear that the story line became burdensome. What a blow it was. What a powerful crushing, just a stake to the heart. Hoosh! Hoosh! no more vampires.

 

[J Riff]

Hoosh?...

 

[Perpetual Man]

Hmmm interesting point Tinsel.

I don't think the Vampires needed to attack Buffys self-esteem, not really, she did that well enough on her own. At the end of season 2, after she had 'killed' Angel, she fell into a depression so deep that she just ran away from her friends and family; tried to pretend that she was someone else, just because she could not hack being the Slayer.

In season 5 after she returned from the dead herself her esteem was so low that she entered into a near violent sexual relationship with not only a man she hated, but a vampire (Spike). And these are just the two big ones.

Willow was afraid of Vampires to start with, but that diminished, probably from hanging out with Buffy and knowing that she was protected. In addition to that as her own mystical power grew, there was less and less for her to be scared of, as she became something to fear.

The later seasons were not as good as the first three, but that did not make them burdensome, there were classic episodes, good ideas and some great moments. They were much more character orientated which perhaps slowed them a little, but showed that the characters were maturing, moving on.

And the vampires, yeah well, they might have been a little more intelligent, but they were just monsters, human beings brought back from the dead without souls and a desire to drink blood. Most were just monsters for the hell of it, but we got to see more of a depth from Angel/Angelus, Spike, Drusilla, Darla and the Master.

 

[digs]

The reality was that, despite its title, Buffy wasn't about vampires at all. The monsters were handy personifications (monstrofications?) of real-life problems (moving in with a new room-mate, dealing with addiction, falling for the bad boy...) I like to think the main reason the show moved away from vampires as a concept was to show Buffy outgrowing her high school demons and going on to face bigger and harder things. And I think part of the reason the vampires, as you say, act more like villains than the undead, is because one of the scariest things about vampires is that they appear human. The vampires in Buffy could be funny, cowardly, needy or just plain stupid...I guess that's part of their charm. Otherwise we'd have never had great relatable vampire characters like Angel or Spike or Drusilla (though hopefully not many people can relate to Dru).

 

[Tinsel]

I'm about to take a break from the forums for a few weeks but since I had created this thread just yesterday and I see that it has a few replies, I better give some response:

I suppose that I was aiming for a literal interpretation "Buffy the Vampire Slayer".

I agree with what you said, digs. The focus was not on undead creatures of the night, so much as characters with rage. I thought that both Angel and Spike were intimidating enough. They did alright in that department. I didn't mind Dru, but she could have dressed more like Barbarella? Yes, but she had some charm, and it is her and not Willow that should have delved into magic.

Perpetual Man, I do realize that Buffy did need to escape. When she did, than the group was weaker and you could see that she needed to find out how to develop apart from everyone else. In the movie "Salem's Lot", the newest remake, if you want an example, the Vampire attacks the mind of his enemies.

Okay, so I watched the first two seasons of Buffy. Have not returned to finish it, but obviously they accomplished more than I would like to know. I was sorely disappointed in these most recent Vampires in "New Moon" or whatever it is called.

 

[Perpetual Man]

Well, you see Tinsel, you don't realize that the vampires in Twilight and New Moon... nah, even I can't try and defend that one.

I think one of the things that Buffy did do, was really open the door for more 'human' vampires, Angel might have been a unique character in one context, but the vampires since then have been less monster, more tormented souls... which is not a good thing.

 

[Tinsel]

It might even get worse than it is already, so I wouldn't mind seeing Buffy do one of these adult vampire films if she is up to it. Enough of this Peter Pan horror!

Angel should have been an angel, not a vampire... and I'm not talking about a protagonist.

 

[Tinsel]

Almost forgot: It's all because of Buffy the vampire slayer that things are getting so bad.

Also, since when are vampires physically stronger than werewolves??? how silly (ref to a number of other movies that I've seen post Buffy).

Well good luck depicting a real Angel.

 

[devilsgrin]

the problem of pansy vamps isn't Buffy's fault (at least not solely). Vampire Diaries (the books of course)has been around longer than BtVS, so if anything the blame can be laid directly at Stefan's feet. I see SO much in common between Angel and Stefan, they are essentially the same character. In some ways Damon is Angelus, but even Stefan gets a bit Angelus-ish.
True Blood has some very non-whipped vampires ...

Have you only watched the first two seasons of BtVS Tinsel? If so, you really need to watch at least the third season, since its integral to the over-arching Buffy-Angel storyline. You could safely skip seasons 4 (eeugh the Initiative) and 5 (though Glory wins for me as the BEST villain of all). Things happen in season 6 that have major impact, though the season itself is perhaps the weakest. Season 7... handsdown my favourite season of all. (season 2 was pretty close tho - Spike and Dru are incredibly well developed characters, even my only the end of that season, not taking into consideration what happens in later season of Buffy and of Angel).

Lastly, in all the fiction i've read, or movies i've seen excepting only ONE (and the lawsuit that made "two"), Vampires are always more dangerous than Werewolves - indeed, in almost all of them, the Werewolves obey...
The "two" where the status quo is switched are White Wolf's World of Darkness role-playing setting (and the large number of books its spawned), and the Underworld trilogy (and White Wolf DID sue the movies' makers because they believed their IP had been infringed upon (its a valid argument)). Twilight seems a bit more even... tho overall... the body count is HEAVILY in the werewolves favour.

 

[Yog-Sothoth]

I think the Vamps in the Buffy series are far superior, and more multi-dimensional than the current crap. I mean the mad Drusilla would subdue all of them in less than a second lol. The only other Vamps that I really like are Deacon Frost & his gang in the first Blade movie, now those were badass.

Devilgrin, I agree, season 7 was great, and Fillion made a great villain. I have the whole boxset, I might return to the series in the near future.

 

[Tinsel]

I am afraid that as of today, I'm hanging it up as far as purchases go, especially since someone reset my email, so that means, no more iTunes. Anyway, I'm not that angry, I have more than enough books and recordings to last me for ten years at least. Enough is enough.

So therefore, I know, or maybe I didn't know about the Vampire Chronicles being created before Buffy, but what I just wanted to do was give Gellar a boot, and it wasn't really me, I don't think, but there was some more objective rationale. Maybe one day, I'll understand it.

I'm content to stay with H.P. Lovecraft, and perhaps the occasional additional authors story or novel (but more likely a short story). I also read the Bible.

I mean, I could provide a stronger response concerning what I think about Vampires, but I won't have much time for that. I'll be battling to get in some Lovecraft, and I intend to. I'm not sure if I care for H.P. or not. Maybe I'm trying to smoke him out. I do not know. I like feeling strong sometimes, and it is important to develop some wisdom if that is what it is. I don't know what it is, just that it builds up, and than it can be unleashed. Cool Beans.

 

[Tinsel]

Alright really quick:

Vampires are playing angels, and werewolves are starting to look like wolves. I have always considered werewolves as being physically more powerful than vampires, yet vampires are better at fitting in with people and they have minions such as fiends/helpers. They are making vampires more like angels, but angels should be a separate character.

Anyway, there does not appear to be very much strictness and you even have fledgling vampires that are stronger than the mature vampires, which is the opposite of what has been true in the past.

Boy, I just give up. It is just Michelle now. She is the one, the mezzier, err the messiah. We will see what will take place if I can get up the courage to sit in one of those theaters now that iTunes is down.