need help identifying military badges from imperial russia

[Wybren]

I have on loan at the moment badges from of great grandfather's ( I am photographing them and cataloging them) from I believe the Bolshevik revolution. 3 of his medals I have been able to identify, they Order of St Anne, the Order of the Double Dragon and the Japanese red cross badge, but these are I am having trouble with, so I am putting them up here in the hope that someone might have an idea about what they may be.

 

[J Riff]

Well I have a Sov roomie, I'll ask him when he wakes up.

 

[J Riff]

Well no idea, but those are some serious skull n bonesy dudes.

 

[Wybren]

Thanks J Riff.

Yeah the skulls are really serious looking aren't they. I know that part of the words around it say "The God" but what the rest and the monograph refers to I am slightly lost.

 

[Foxbat]

I wonder if this site will help you?

Medals of Russia - Index

 

[Foxbat]

This site might be a more likely place to identify them (one or two of the badges have skulls)

Russian Imperial Awards, Cross, orders, Medals, Badges, WW2 and WW1 militaria for sale

The one that looks kind of like an iron cross seems to be Bulak-balachowicz Skull Badge circa 1920.

 

[Wybren]

Thanks Foxbat, I had looked there before, the cross is similar to that of the Bulak-balcowicz and also the skull is similar to that used on the regiment badge for Kornilov's White Guard, There are a few other white guard badges that have a skull motif. From what I know of my Great Grandfather, he was a "White" Russian and lived in exile in china after the revolution. So I am thinking that the badges are probably from a white guard regiment, I think the monogram on the bottom would be an indicator of what group. Ah well it gives me something to do.

 

[Foxbat]

Yes. I definitely agree with your thoughts. They look to be from White Russian Guard units....although, I thought I also saw a skull insignia on some kind of air unit badge. He wasn't a pilot by any chance?

Anyway, good luck with your search. It can be utterly fascinating to discover what our predecessors were up to

 

[Wybren]

The totenkofp seems to have been a popular motif, that is for sure! He wasn't a pilot (though his son- my grandfather- was in the airforce in ww2 ), from what I recall he was either in the Navy or a Hussar, or both. He also received an Order of Saint Anna (2nd Class) and when he was in china received an Order of the Double Dragon.

 

[Hex]

These are wonderful.

I don't really have much new to add, except that - as you say - a reference to our God during the Bolshevik revolution is bound to be anti-Bolshevik. They're definitely from within Russia? I mean, they couldn't be an anti-revolutionary attempt at religious propaganda from outside? And which year do you think they're from? I don't know if the provisional government had its own medals but it's possible.

My main suggestion, though, is that you contact a historian of Soviet history - there's a Finnish specialist on Soviet history called Arto Luukkanen (I'm too new to post links etc but a web search finds him) who has done some great research on Bolshevik religious policy. If he doesn't know, he'll probably know someone who does. He's the kind of person who is likely to be interested enough to help.

 

[Hex]

(Also, I think the writing says "s nami bog" - which is "God is with us")

 

[Wybren]

Awesome, thanks Hex. It is possible that they weren't from within Russia . My Great Grandfather spent alot of time in the far east, in Vladivostok and outer Manchuria. In the 1920's he escaped to Harbin where he met my great grandma and where my grandfather was born.

I will look up Arto Luukkanen and see if I can contact him for help. Thank you once again

 

[Hex]

What a fantastic story. I did wonder if the monogram stood for A D which could possibly be a reference to the White commander Anton Denikin (but that's as much imagination as being able to tell anything at all from the monogram - the D isn't really a D, for example...).
Try Arto - I tried to send you this in a private message but it turns out I can't: if you say Anna Dickinson from Birmingham suggested that you contact him it might possibly help (depending on how good his memory is).

 

[Wybren]

I found Arto's email earlier through the university and sent a copy of the photos, I am hoping he will be as helpful as other academics I have had to contact in the past, Most of the time they are approachable.

I think my great grandfather must have lead a very interesting life, he was well decorated, with an Order of St Anna second class and the Chinese order of the Double Dragon and I believe he was very well to do in China after he left Russia.

 

[Hex]

I found Arto's email earlier through the university and sent a copy of the photos, I am hoping he will be as helpful as other academics I have had to contact in the past, Most of the time they are approachable.

I think my great grandfather must have lead a very interesting life, he was well decorated, with an Order of St Anna second class and the Chinese order of the Double Dragon and I believe he was very well to do in China after he left Russia.

The worst Arto'll do is ignore the email, I suspect, because he's busy. However, I think he'll probably find the story very interesting. It's fascinating. If only people wrote things down when they did them! (but then they might not do them, I suppose). Best of luck with finding out more about the medals. I'd love to hear what they are if you find out.

 

[Wybren]

Yes it would have been good if people wrote things down, or at least told their children and grand children about them. My Grandfather, he was interviewed for something a few years ago and thankfully my grandmother emailed it to us, all this stuff about his childhood in China, but of my Great Grandfather we have photos and his medals and not much else. My Great Grandma, when she was alive, she never spoke of him, mostly I suspect, because he broke her heart and ran off with her best friend, and my grandfather never spoke much of him, except he was a looming presence when I was a kid because there was this great photo of him in my grandparents place.

I figure the worst that would happen is as you say the email will be ignored, it is mid semester at the moment and I would figure like other professors he is up to his neck in assessments and such.

 

[Wybren]

Hex, I got a reply from Arto, He says that the badges are typical of the "Death Battalions" of the White army, he said the writing is "Nami s bog" which means "We are with god" From what I can work out my great grandfather was probably under the command of Admiral Kolchak. What looks like a monogram at the bottom is A Oc or Armija Osvobozhdenija ( Liberation Army)