Wise Man's Fear (Contains Spoilers)

I thought about that, but wouldn't Bast know if Kvothe had done something like that. He seemed surprised that Kvothe had ever crossed aths with them .

Also, re: Auri, I'm nit sure if it means anything at all, but Rothfuss has mentioned that his original versions of the story didn't have her in it. She's a late addition. Whatever that means.
 
My mind isn't working properly today, and I think I read the book too fast.

Does anyone remember how we found out that Cinder was the leader of the bandits?

The Cthaeh told him...

Re: Auri...I like her. I don't know how she fits into the story, but she's amazing.
 
It must be time for a re read I think of both books I vaguely remember having a thought during the Felurian bits of WMF her comments on the moon reminded me about Auri for some reason. I can't recall exactly what it was but there is some habit of Auri to do with the moon, anyone else remember something like that?
 
Pretty sure Bredon is Denna's patron.

Something I picked up on, which I'm fairly sure hasn't been mentioned yet (apologies if it has) is the Cthaeth scene, it mentions that the mysterious patron has started beating Denna with his walking stick. I'm sure when I say it, you'll all remember that Rothfuss describes Bredon's cane as having a silver wolf's head. (This was more detail than I expected, so I made a mental note to remember it.)
 
Heh, another couple of things that've jumped out at me over the past few hours. :p

If you take a look through the Felurian section, when she first takes Kvothe to the dark place for his Shaed, he sees her sitting down making a motion with her hands that he recognises but can't put his finger on. He later realises it's the same motion as his father used for sewing.

Earlier on when Kvothe dines with Lady Lackless, he says that he recognised her but couldn't put his finger on why. I think it's because she looks so much like his mother. Another childhood memory that he has kind of "repressed".

The other thing: When Kvothe speaks with the Cthaeth, you notice that it answers every question sometimes before it is even asked. Except one.

"...Why did they leave you alive? Why because they were sloppy, and because you were lucky, and because something scared them away." What scared them away? I thought numbly. But it was all too much. The things the voice said. My mouth worked silently questioning.
What? the Cthaeth asked. Are you looking for a different why? Are you wondering why I tell you these things?..."

Think of that what you want, perhaps it means something, perhaps not. :D
 
Some good point Stefan.

I think it's safe to say that we are all just about agreed on Kvothe's mother.

Just to underline that a bit more - going back to the song:

"Dark Laurian, Arliden's wife,
Has a face like a blade of a knife
Has a voice like a prickledown burr
But can tally a sum like a moneylender.
My sweet Tally cannot cook.
But she keeps a tidy ledger-book
For all her faults I do confess
It's worth my life
To make my wife
Not tally a lot less..."


It sums up in so many ways a rich woman moving into a less privileged life for love no less - my great grandmother did the same, and apparently could not cook (even boil an egg), but was excellent at writing the business books up etc

Of course the missing Lackless was called Netalia which calls to mind nettles and the song mentions prickledown burr...

And that last line that CCC pointed out is her name encypted, the only flaw being lot does not really sound like lack but having a lot less is in itself a lack...
 
I'm thrilled to find this thread. Just read Wise Man's Fear this week and have been interested in chatting with people.

Regarding the Lackless Door, it's definitely opened by Kvothe, right? I think there are actually pretty good matches for most of the lines, though two of them don't seem very clear (yet). Maybe I'm not being clever enough.

"Seven things stand before
The entrance to the Lackless Door

One of them a ring unworn
This has to be Kvothe's ring of air, which he is on the verge of creating at the end of the book

One a word that is forsworn
Kvothe swore on his name that he wouldn't pursue Denna's patron. If he goes after the patron after all then his name is a forsworn word, and if her patron is a Chandrian then this makes even more sense that he wouldn't be able to keep his word.

One a time that must be right
The new moon. How many times have we heard that a wise man fear's a night with no moon? Plus Felurian explained why that was dangerous, and how the world is pulled closer to Fae at the new moon.

One a candle without light
Erm. Yes.

One a son who brings the blood
Kvothe has to be Meleun's nephew, so this would make sense as him bringing the blood. Not just having blood, but bringing it back, since it was gone traveling.

One a door that holds the flood
I really don't know about this one. I wonder i fit might have to do with the cubes Kilvin showed to Kvothe that set up a forcefield? They can create the effect of a closed door, and they can definitely hold things back. It's a stretch, I know.

One a thing tight held in keeping
This could be the Adem sword. He's keeping tight hold of it, and keeping it for the Adem, but it's not his.

Then comes that which comes with sleeping
Dreams? Does that mean it opens a door to Fae? Or is it something more sinister, one of the other "four doors" of forgetfulness, madness, and death? I've felt the weight of those four all through both novels, I have trouble thinking that describing all four doors was throwaway.

Anyway, glad to see this going on and I'll try to post more if I think of it!
 
All of you with your insights are great but this is really making me miss the book even more. As much as I am dying for book three it is really going to be sad to see this series end.
 
A thought I have been having, do you guys really think the series will only be three books? I don't know if it is just wishful thinking on my part, but I get the feeling that once Kvothe is done telling his story that he might become himself again... I wonder if there will be a book four (and hopefully more) that takes Kvothe away from the Inn to right all the wrongs he created in the world.
 
A thought I have been having, do you guys really think the series will only be three books? I don't know if it is just wishful thinking on my part, but I get the feeling that once Kvothe is done telling his story that he might become himself again... I wonder if there will be a book four (and hopefully more) that takes Kvothe away from the Inn to right all the wrongs he created in the world.

This ties in with what I have been saying and thinking.

Everyone seems to be referring to the series as a trilogy - and there must be a reason for it - I have not been looking so I do not know, but the series is called The Kingkiller Chronicles.

I'm wondering if we are seeing a series of trilogies, a bit like Robin Hobbs books.

Or maybe not.

I'm sure that there is someone who can answer the question.
 
The first time I read the book, I was completely unimpressed. Two thirds of his life's story in and he's barely a man. There's so much left to do: find the amyr, meet the singers, save the princess (who we havent even met), get expelled from school, meet the chandrian again, kill a king, start a war, etc.

After rereading it, however, I fell in love the same way I did with the first book.

One thing to mention: "Pity he got away," the Cthaeh continued. "Still, you must admit you've had quite a piece of luck. I'd say it was a twice-in-a-lifetime opportunity meeting up with him again."

Taken literally, this means he will only meet Cinder one more time (twice in a lifetime to meet him AGAIN).

Also, we've definitely been warned that we can't believe the stories told by villagers. However, considering Kvothe helped him finish it I think Aaron's song or poem may be completely true. "On his first hand he wore rings of stone, iron, amber, wood, and bone." On his second hand, he had 5 unseen rings: blood, air, ice, fire, and a ring without a name.

Holy crap. Can you imagine what someone could do with the name of blood? Wow.
 
Pat said, that when he first wrote the whole thing it was over a million words. Book one was 250,000 approx and book two is 350,000. BUT, he has added considerably now it's in three books (Bast disn't even exist originally!) and says the editing of book two added almost 100,000. I'd be happy to see book 4, if it meant the story was told to its fullest - I was miffed he skimmed over learning the language, and the trial, to be honest.

And there's so much more to come - didn't kvothe say somewhere: my first proper lover called my shaducar or somesuch - I'm in the Barcelona sunshine, without either book to reference.
 
Rereading NotW...and I found this:

"Kill the Chandrian? Kill Lanre? How could I even begin? I would have more luck trying to steal the moon"
 
There is some of my theories:
Auri must have something to do witth the fae, there is to much connection between the moon and her, beside her description looks like the one the mercenary woman gives when she talk about the moon, and I don't think Elodin would have try to befriend her for so long if she wasn't important. It is not a thing that is kept behind the Door of stone, I think it is a person, maybe it is Iax, the man who stole the moon, I believe that Felurian mention that it was for that reason that the Creation war started and that he is now locked away. So Kvothe may have open the doors later in is story, Iax got out (That's why Chronicler said on TNOW: "Some said there is a new chandrain with hair as raid as the blood he spills") and that would explain why there are creatures who have desapere thousands of year ago (probably at the end of the war) who appera now like the skin dancers.
At the question what stoped the chandrian from killing kvothe, my theory is linked to the fact everybody think that his mother was a Lockless, Thelu's angel probably came to stop the chandrians, if his mother was a lockless, since there family was entrusted with some important heirloom that's connected to the Chandrian, it's probable that some of thelu's angel protected her in a way and they got there to late to save her. Remember the description of the angels in TNOW "with wings of fire and shadows", and remember the story of kvothe in tarbean during the midwinter pegeantry when he almost dye of cold, he talked about a bird of fire and shadow who put its wings around him, making him warm. I think one or more of Thelu's angals is following him for his own protection, and that's why Skarpi new who he was and where he lived at Tarbean, Skarpi knows Thelu, he said himself "Thelu always say..." just before bieng stop by the Justice. The young girl from Trebon told kvothe "An angel gave me these dreams" and the chief of the bandits during the fight stopped and was like listening to something, exactly what the Chandrian did when they kill is parents just before Halyax "said they are coming". So it wasn't kvothe who brought down the thunder, but one of thelu's angels.
Now I want you to consider this, Elodin seemed scared when he thought Kvothe or Fela had changed their names, he thought that was dangerous, so it is dangerous for a namer to change his name. Then what about Chronicler, he is a namer and he said "I left the name Devan behind me long ago and I haven't though of myself as Devan for ages". He is a namer and his real name is Deva Lochees, that sound a lot like Lochless, the Maer's Doctor told kvothe that some of the braches from the Lochless family change their names a bit like Lochloe or something like that, Chronicler could be more that what meet the eyes, and it's maybe not a coincidence if the guy who stole his gear and his horse ended up as a zombie a day later. It would not be surprising that the "Great Debonker" as kvothe called him, had try to prove that the chandrian doesn't exist and he maybe meet them and where changed, he said to kvothe in TWMF "You wouldn't have liked me when I was at the university, I was a petulant brat, but I learnt more on the road that at the university". I fear all of them have something to hide.
About kvothe being young, I think he is and he he isn't, remember, he said I am older, he spent some time in the fae with felurian, and he certainly didn't meet Bast in the human world so I guess he could be young by it's time spent in the human world (maybe 18 years old) and older by his time spent in the fae.
About the door, remember what Haliax told Selitos, "No door can stay closed in front of me" that's why he can't sleep, forget, get mad or die, his name prevent him from all of the 4 doors and he what he is looking for is the door of stone in order to open them, trouble is Selitos and the oder namers must have made those doors in a way that he need some one special to open them, hence the to poem about the Lady Lackless, only Kvothe "the son who brings the blood can open it" and the flood will come, maybe a new war. You must remember what the book of the path sayd, Thelu, sent all the demons in the nameless void, with them Encanis (Iax) their chief. The chadrians are supposed to be those who refused Thelu's proposal, they wern't demons, so they just want to release the demon who were locked away, end the nameless void must be the doors of stone.
 
A thought I have been having, do you guys really think the series will only be three books? I don't know if it is just wishful thinking on my part, but I get the feeling that once Kvothe is done telling his story that he might become himself again... I wonder if there will be a book four (and hopefully more) that takes Kvothe away from the Inn to right all the wrongs he created in the world.
I think so too, it's will be longer than just 3 books, I guess kvothe will become himself again and he will know who want him dead and try to find them/him.
 
Hoy!
Amazing read - just finished it here in the grey and snowy Finland. Wanted to go somewhere to discuss it and found this forum. Looks great.

Denna’s patron – obviously this is an important part in the overall story and is discussed at length by Kvothe and even Cthaeh brings it up (though this could be because of its personal significance to Kvothe). As for me, is the patron Cinder or one of the Chandrian? First I thought no, at least I hope not. I mean sure they would probably have the time for all this, with Haliax being alive for five-thousand years without one second of sleep, but it just doesn’t seem to fit their style. But now that I think of it in some greater scheme of things - and yes it does fit very well doesn’t it – it seem to be so, or “Mr. Ash” could at least be an agent of the Chandrian, hence Bredon. (Would they have one though, an agent who is not one of the Seven? Seven and a half? No, not really…)

The Cthaeh - first of all, excellent the whole encounter and the imagery of the tree (yeah I know Cthaeh was not a tree) and the concept of its fatalistic malice. So this is the source of the current happenings of the present day (primary frame story) – or so we can arguably assume. He tells Kvothe ” “Not many folk will take your search for the Amyr seriously, you realize,” the Cthaeh continued calmly. “The Maer, however, is quite the extraordinary man. He’s already come close to them, though he doesn’t realize it. Stick by the Maer and he will lead you to their door.” He also laughs at this and says there is a joke in it, and urges to Kvothe to remember this if nothing else. So I’m looking for something in the wording? Door? Same door as in the Lackless song?

I disagree with JohnnyMc about the literal meaning of " ‘Pity he got away,’ the Cthaeh continued. ’Still, you must admit you've had quite a piece of luck. I'd say it was a twice-in-a-lifetime opportunity meeting up with him again.’ “ That time was the second time, and if so and taking Cthaeh’s words as definite then there is no more meeting up with Cinder. Maybe someone else kills him?

Hmm...the Cthaeh also said “You thought of her too, I’m guessing. In between the strawberries and the swimming and the rest” So, Kvothe does this (berries and swimming) with Felurian and Denna both, and he also thinks about the other while doing these things with the other. Interesting…? Coincidence? Denna also seems very enticing and almost irresistible to men, much like Felurian. (Wait, why would the Cthaeh have to be “guessing”?)

Aaalso, the whole thing with time and the Fae? How long did Kvothe spend there and what does it mean in the mortal realm? I know this shortly discussed at various points and at the end of tWMF, so maybe it is important or perhaps Rothfuss is just giving us something to think about when we think about different realms and wants us to think about the realm he has created in the Fae. He seems to be proud of the Fae (rightfully so, I like what he has done with the time and the directions), but leaves it all very ambiguous. Anyway, it is discussed quite a bit and the Cthaeh also uses a (mortal realm) concept of time when he says, referring to the leader of the bandits and Cinder: “You’ve seen him just a day or three ago?” I don’t know, just something I thought about.

Did anyone run into (read into?) any errors or mistakes in Rothfuss’s exceptional and striking writing - any little slips of the pen that seemed inconsistent or otherwise peculiar. For me there was something that one made me think “Right ok, but earlier you said that…” That was when Kvothe says that the one thing a guest can do to be discourteous and anger a host is to refuse an offer of hospitality, but then the old tradition of the Edema Ruh to offer wine, but to expect the guest to refuse the offer continuously. A little nag for me. Also, the Adem and their ignorance on babies? Personally, that lost much of my appeal for the Adem culture/PR’s “world building”.

Bloody ashes (sorry), I really need to learn how to be economical with my words. Loved the book, a bit of diversion considering how little the actual main plot developed. Still nothing compared to say Darkness at Sethanon.

TLDR – Much of nothing, but I’ll continue to discuss Kingkiller Chronicle on these forums.

UR

ps. Jakis = Jackass
 
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I'm thrilled I found this forum. Everyone here seems so intelligent and thoughtful... a lot of good theories.

Some interesting thoughts:

Denna = Denner - Kvothe mentions the whiteness of her teeth all the time - the lips like rubies with no color added to them, etc. Could it be that she's evil like denner or that she's just addictive like it?
Denna weaves the knots in her hair to make her appear beautiful - when Kvothe noticed the braid/knots, it said "lovely". Denna was embarrased that he could read them on sight. Makes you wonder what else or whom else she has been fooling by those knotted words.

The doors as subject of the third book has to do with the stone doors in the archives. I think there is a force field around them using the stone dice-like blocks that was shown to him in the artifice. Just a thought.

The box that Kvothe's aunt has contains information on the Chandrian and whatever is inside helps to unlock the stone doors.

Kvothe could've killed the soldiers - he chose not to so he didn't give himself away.

Bredon is Denna's patron. I think he is the amyr and is training her and therefore all her bumps and bruises. I think they are in concert together to draw the Chandrian for whatever reason, thus the misinformation on the song.

Music is what injures the Chandrian in some shape or form. I think that is one of the reasons that the troupe was killed in addition to the information being spread, but remember, Kvothe was saved because "they are coming" and apparently "they" are protecting Kvothe.

Kingkiller could mean that he killed Ambrose in that Ambrose was in line to be king. Just because he hasn't made it to that title yet doesn't mean that Kvothe didn't kill a (potential) king.

Pat was asked at a signing if we can rely on Kote as a storyteller - his answer was something like... ."That's a great question, isn't it?" IS Kote stretching the truth- apparently he is when he says that Denna is/was beautiful since Bast says she was ordinary. How much of what Kote is remembering is true?

Finally, Pat says that the kingkiller chronicles is a trilogy, but that this is just ONE story of HUNDREDS that he has in his head for this world he has created. I think we can all look forward to more and more and more of Pat's terrific prose and elegant storytelling for years to come. I consider myself one of the lucky ones to have stumbled upon it 4 yrs ago and now have years of entertainment ahead. Thanks Patrick!
 
Finally, Pat says that the kingkiller chronicles is a trilogy, but that this is just ONE story of HUNDREDS that he has in his head for this world he has created. I think we can all look forward to more and more and more of Pat's terrific prose and elegant storytelling for years to come. I consider myself one of the lucky ones to have stumbled upon it 4 yrs ago and now have years of entertainment ahead. Thanks Patrick!

Welcome Lifuss! I'm glad to hear that Pat has more books to come in the future. He sure has set the bar high.
 

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