Lessons Learned about Copy-Editing and Publishing

[OmahaRenegade]

So I just submitted my finished manuscript (75,300 words) to a copy-editor, Ms. Dorrie O'Brien. A little pricey, but that was expected (over $2000).

What was not expected was time time. This is something for anyone who is serious about publishing, either through an agent and brick-and-mortar publishing company or self-publishing. When I hired Ms. O'Brien and I asked for a detailed copy-edit in two months she balked! She said the process will take at least six months. SIX MONTHS!

I admit this was definitely unrealistic expectations on my part, and I'm sure there are others out there who are just now getting into writing as a serious career (part or full time). It's going to take a lot longer than you'd expect. On my site I kept telling all my viewers, "Oh yeah, 1 June 2011, no problem." Now I'm eating my words. But it's a learning point and one I'd like to share with everyone else.

If you're just getting into writing, expect 6-8 months after you finish the initial manuscript for detailed, developmental copy-editing. If you've been doing this for a while, you can either 1) sympathize (you may have made the same mistake), or 2) have a chuckle. I guess I sorta deserve it lol

But like I said, this is all a great learning experience and I'm better for it

 

[Brian G Turner]

It sounds like a good plan if the editor is experienced in the genre, and the issue of patience is essential in everything.

Good call on the time frame, though - that should help more than a few people get an idea of the preparations they may not to allow for.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Developmental copy editing? Copy editing is just going through and looking for grammar, punctuation, and spelling mistakes. Oh, and fact checking if necessary. It doesn't take six months.

If the editor is helping you to develop your plot and characters, that's not copy editing. I point this out, because a lot of people lengthen their search for an editor by approaching the wrong ones: book doctors when they want copy editors, copy editors when they want someone to help with the larger issues.

It sounds like the editor you have chosen is much in demand, which is why the six month time frame. If she's helping you work on plot, characters, etc., then six months is just the beginning, as you will need time to implement her suggestions.

 

[OmahaRenegade]

Developmental copy editing? Copy editing is just going through and looking for grammar, punctuation, and spelling mistakes. Oh, and fact checking if necessary. It doesn't take six months.

If the editor is helping you to develop your plot and characters, that's not copy editing. I point this out, because a lot of people lengthen their search for an editor by approaching the wrong ones: book doctors when they want copy editors, copy editors when they want someone to help with the larger issues.

It sounds like the editor you have chosen is much in demand, which is why the six month time frame. If she's helping you work on plot, characters, etc., then six months is just the beginning, as you will need time to implement her suggestions.

Yeah, she will begin the read and line edit around the 1st of July. As she goes she'll make suggestions and we'll work through stuff chapter by chapter. I want a quality piece, so even though it kills me due to length of time it will take I'm willing to go through with it.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Six months is not long at all to work on a final draft of a manuscript, with or without the assistance of an editor. A first novel usually takes years to write, edit and polish.

Writing and publishing is a lengthy process, at all stages. It's good that you are beginning to get a better idea of how long it takes, but it sounds like your expectations could still use some adjustment.

 

[Anne Lyle]

I agree with Teresa - 6-8 months is not long to work on your first attempt at revising a novel, even with someone helping you. It took me 9 months to put my wreck of a manuscript through Holly Lisle's "How to Revise Your Novel" course, and two more "fine-tuning" drafts of about two months each before I sold it. All in all, it took me four years from first outline to finished product (with breaks along the way for other projects).

For anyone who doesn't have $2000 lying around, I would heartily recommend Holly's course. It costs just $250, which you can pay in installments, and teaches you exactly how to restructure, copy-edit and improve your work. There's no one-on-one supervision, but you can ask questions on the forum and get help from graduates of the course and Holly herself.

 

[OmahaRenegade]

6-8 months is FAST? Yikes!
But if that's the case then I'll slog through it. Again, it's a learning process.

And I haven't quit my day job, so I'll be fine if it does take that long, haha.

Any other lessons others want to share?

 

[Anne Lyle]

6-8 months is FAST? Yikes!

If she's working with you, going through it chapter-by-chapter, then yes, 6-8 months sounds like a reasonable timespan. Especially if there's communication back and forth. Think of it like a critique group, except that there's only the two of you - you're doing, what, a chapter a week? That sounds about right to me.

As Teresa says, ordinary copy-editing (the sort that publishers do) is quick because it involves only fact'n'consistency checking - making sure that a character's name or eye colour doesn't change halfway through the manuscript, checking if that model of car was available in the year the book takes place, that kind of thing.

Any other lessons others want to share?

1. It gets easier, the more you do it

2. Be sure of what it is you want out of this process, and what you are getting. A chapter-by-chapter edit will help you to write better prose, but it won't do anything for your ability to write a good novel, and certainly is no guarantee that it will be any more publishable when you're done.

I say this as someone who belonged to a critique group for years and reached the point where I could write perfectly good chapters but still had huge problems handling the sheer length and scope of a novel. That was when I ended up a) taking Holly's courses and b) forming a writers' group dedicated to critiquing entire novels.

The revision process should begin with a read-through of the entire book and an assessment of how well the thing works as a whole - characters, plot and conflicts. Only then can you worry about fixing clunky dialogue, removing infodumps and so on. Maybe you are a born storyteller, and structurally your book is fine, but if not, rest assured that it's a skill that can be learned. I'm living proof of it

My publisher described me in their press release as "a born storyteller". (Pauses to ROFLMAO) It's a good thing he never gets to see my first drafts...

 

[chrispenycate]

Ah, yes, the "instant overnight sensation" syndrome, after a mere twelve years of practice, trials and lots (and lots) of error.

We get it in the music business, too.

Personally, my sympathies lie with the copy editor. Yes, it is quite fun doing clean up on a few thousand words, and getting the feeling of satisfaction of getting something right, and maybe even helping someone. Now imagine having little or no choice in what material you're working on (not difficult for a recording engineer) and being told: "No, I need it faster than that". (Also a typical reaction, although it would probably be "knead" and "then" )

Yes, I suppose, as we said as we climbed scaffold towers to rig canvas roof and lighting trusses, "beats working for a living."

 

[Boneman]

I say this as someone who belonged to a critique group for years and reached the point where I could write perfectly good chapters but still had huge problems handling the sheer length and scope of a novel. That was when I ended up a) taking Holly's courses and b) forming a writers' group dedicated to critiquing entire novels.

Wow! How often do you meet?

And good luck, Omaha - the hard work is all ahead of you!

 

[Philosopher]

Ah man seems like things take so much longer than expected. I have a question; say one submitted their manuscript to an agent / publisher, how polished does that need to be? I hear that the publisher assigns you an editor, but I assume there must be some standard they expect before they take it on? In that case, would one want to pay for their own editing service before submitting to the lit agent / publisher?

Thanks

 

[Boneman]

Ah man seems like things take so much longer than expected. I have a question; say one submitted their manuscript to an agent / publisher, how polished does that need to be? I hear that the publisher assigns you an editor, but I assume there must be some standard they expect before they take it on? In that case, would one want to pay for their own editing service before submitting to the lit agent / publisher?

Thanks

As polished as you can possibly make it: you get one chance, and one chance only - it has to be the best you can make it.

 

[J Riff]

For two grand, I'd edit the phonebook in two days. )

 

[Anne Lyle]

Wow! How often do you meet?

We don't have a schedule - there are only five of us, so at the usual writers' average of a book a year, that means we are only ever likely to meet every couple of months.

Also, none of us write vast doorstops (we're either already published or aiming very seriously at doing so) and we're experienced critiquers - it doesn't actually take long to read a novel straight through, making basic notes as you go. We don't do chapter-by-chapter analyses, but look for major problems like pace, plotting and characterisation.

I can do that on a 100-150k manuscript in two days

 

[Boneman]

We don't have a schedule - there are only five of us, so at the usual writers' average of a book a year, that means we are only ever likely to meet every couple of months.

Also, none of us write vast doorstops (we're either already published or aiming very seriously at doing so) and we're experienced critiquers - it doesn't actually take long to read a novel straight through, making basic notes as you go. We don't do chapter-by-chapter analyses, but look for major problems like pace, plotting and characterisation.

I can do that on a 100-150k manuscript in two days

Can I join?

 

[OmahaRenegade]

Here's another question: is 75K words for a book too short? I know a lot of books these days (I take my standard of measure from Warhammer 40K) is about 90-110K. My book is 75K. Should I add more? Or is it more about the story content rather than the length?

 

[The Judge]

If you want to be published by a genuine SFF publisher, yes, 75,000 words is too short. They are looking for more than this, the word count figures dependent on whether it's SF or F and whether it's US or UK -- there are plenty of threads in GWD where this is discussed, so have a look around.

If you are self-publishing, it's a different matter. You can publish at whatever length you want.

 

[ctg]

Can I join?

Only if you bring doughnuts

 

[Anne Lyle]

If it's YA, 75k might be OK, but I'm not up-to-date on the YA market because that's not what I write. You might want to hop over to Absolute Write, which is much more focused on writing (obviously) and has a number of members who are published in this genre. Not to dis Chronicles, but it's mainly a site for fans of the genre, not writers, and the published writers here are mostly writing for adults.

 

[Susan Boulton]

Second Absolutewrite, it is a mine of information, though personally I tend to only lurk there, very rare I post at all...