Unresolved Prophecies (spoilers)

[Darth Gregor]

I think we can figure out a lot about where the final two books are headed based upon the outstanding prophecies. Here are the big ones I can think of - I'm sure there are plenty I've missed - feel free to add them in:

The Dragon has Three heads.

This one is loaded:
1) Dany for sure.
2) Jon probably (find it hard to believe he's dead or won't be resurrected in human form).
3) Aegon or Tyrion. Is Aegon a fake? Is Tyrion the Mad King's son? Are they both Targeryans, but is Aegon not going to survive?

Queen you shall be . . . until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear. (Maggy the frog to Cersei)

Cersei is convinced that this is Margery. However, I believe at one point, Cersei comments on how Margery isn't any more beautiful than she is. The younger queen is likely Dany when she makes landfall. As for "take all that you hold dear," this might suggest that Cersei is able to bounce back from her humiliating walk of shame and rule the kingdom as Queen regent again - which is very likely with Kevan Lannister out of the picture. It could also refer to the lives of her two remaining children.

(Referring to Cersei's children)
Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you. (Maggy the Frog)

Shroud, which I had to look up, is often used to refer to a burial sheet. I suspect this means that she will live to see all her children perish (although it doesn't say this explicitly). In her grief "the valonquar" (younger brother) will choke the life from her.

I find it interesting that she mentions Cersei's pale throat. My guess is that it's to contrast against the gold hand that will choke her. The valonquar could be any younger brother - however, I suspect it refers to her younger brother Jaime.

(Khal Drago will be like he was) When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before. (Mirri Maz Duur.)

At the time, I assumed this meant never. I still have a hard time believing that Drago will return. However, as pointed by other, it's possible that a lot of the events indicated in this prophecy are occurring.

- Sun rising in West and setting in East (Quentyn Martell, born in Westeros and dying in the East in Mereen).

- "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves." Not so sure we've seen this part yet.

- "When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child." I'm assuming her heavy period at the end of the book means that she's not barren after all.

Still have a hard time believing that Khal Drago returns from the dead - so I'm not sure what this all means.

----

There are a number of others of outstanding prophecies, if I have time I'll add some more (unless someone wants to beat me to the punch )

 

[KidMT]

I haven't sytematically reviewed them, so I have no theories about what they might mean but I can't shake the feeling that the seeming nonsense that we hear from Patches, Princess Shireen Fool, is loaded with real meaning. I just can't figure out what it is. Also Melisandre was unnerved by him.

What's going on there?

 

[The Imp]

I haven't sytematically reviewed them, so I have no theories about what they might mean but I can't shake the feeling that the seeming nonsense that we hear from Patches, Princess Shireen Fool, is loaded with real meaning. I just can't figure out what it is. Also Melisandre was unnerved by him.

What's going on there?

Perhaps Melisandre saw something in the flames that "matched" what Patchface foreshadowed. I don't remember what he said was unnerved by him, but there are two forehsadowings attributed to PF, amybe more.

The Red Wedding-

“Fool’s blood, king’s blood, blood on the maiden’s thigh, but chains for the guests and chains for the bridegroom, aye aye aye.”

The death of Renley-

“The shadows came to dance, my lord, dance my lord, dance my lord,” he sang, hopping from one foot to the other and back again. “The shadows came to stay, my lord, stay my lord, stay my lord.”He jerked his head with each word, the bells in his antlers ringing up a clangor

 

[The Imp]

I think we can figure out a lot about where the final two books are headed based upon the outstanding prophecies. Here are the big ones I can think of - I'm sure there are plenty I've missed - feel free to add them in:



This one is loaded:
1) Dany for sure.
2) Jon probably (find it hard to believe he's dead or won't be resurrected in human form).
3) Aegon or Tyrion. Is Aegon a fake? Is Tyrion the Mad King's son? Are they both Targeryans, but is Aegon not going to survive?



Cersei is convinced that this is Margery. However, I believe at one point, Cersei comments on how Margery isn't any more beautiful than she is. The younger queen is likely Dany when she makes landfall. As for "take all that you hold dear," this might suggest that Cersei is able to bounce back from her humiliating walk of shame and rule the kingdom as Queen regent again - which is very likely with Kevan Lannister out of the picture. It could also refer to the lives of her two remaining children.



Shroud, which I had to look up, is often used to refer to a burial sheet. I suspect this means that she will live to see all her children perish (although it doesn't say this explicitly). In her grief "the valonquar" (younger brother) will choke the life from her.

I find it interesting that she mentions Cersei's pale throat. My guess is that it's to contrast against the gold hand that will choke her. The valonquar could be any younger brother - however, I suspect it refers to her younger brother Jaime.



At the time, I assumed this meant never. I still have a hard time believing that Drago will return. However, as pointed by other, it's possible that a lot of the events indicated in this prophecy are occurring.

- Sun rising in West and setting in East (Quentyn Martell, born in Westeros and dying in the East in Mereen).

- "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves." Not so sure we've seen this part yet.

- "When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child." I'm assuming her heavy period at the end of the book means that she's not barren after all.

Still have a hard time believing that Khal Drago returns from the dead - so I'm not sure what this all means.

----

There are a number of others of outstanding prophecies, if I have time I'll add some more (unless someone wants to beat me to the punch )

Someone had said something about the seas going dry being the Dothraki Sea drying up and the mountains being the pyramid(s) of Meereen.

DIdn't varys so much as say that Cersei would be back? He's planning on her incompetence to fuel the discord that will make the Iron Throne ripe for the taking.

 

[Needle]

DIdn't varys so much as say that Cersei would be back? He's planning on her incompetence to fuel the discord that will make the Iron Throne ripe for the taking.

Tyrion too. He basically tells Aegon he needs to strike before someone competent takes over for Cersei.

 

[Ursa major]

The seas going dry and the mountains shaking could be a follow-on from the Doom of Valyria, i.e. some form of volcanic action, with or without a magical element.

For example, if the land that was once Valyria were to rise up, prior to another huge eruption, the Smoking Sea would drain away.


Having said that, a drought in the Dothraki see and major disturbances to those pyramids might still be part of the true meaning of that prophecy.

 

[The Imp]

Tyrion too. He basically tells Aegon he needs to strike before someone competent takes over for Cersei.

Does Tyrion know what's become of Cersei? I think he hasn't received any news of her being "arrested', but I've yet to do a DWD re-read, so i'm not at all sure

 

[The Imp]

I've3 been reading over the House of Undying prophecy, the Rhaegar section in particular. i'm totally convinced now that-

The woman with Rhaegar was Lyanna Stark

Jon Snow is the true Aegon.

Aegon/Young Griff is a feint/red herring contrived by Varys to buy time.

Jon=Aegon=Azor Ahai. He will be re-born when he is ressurrected after dying at the end of ADWD. He will the the unifying force that bonds ice with Fire and will probably NOT be one of the heads of the dragon. i'm not sure where Lightbringer will come from. Maybe LongcLaw will glow after he is ressurrected. That sounds pretty weak though.

Apologies if this isn't new, but it's new to ME I've never thought of the woman with Rhaegar in the vision as being Lyanna.

 

[viZion]

Jon=Aegon=Azor Ahai. He will be re-born when he is ressurrected after dying at the end of ADWD. He will the the unifying force that bonds ice with Fire and will probably NOT be one of the heads of the dragon. i'm not sure where Lightbringer will come from. Maybe LongcLaw will glow after he is ressurrected. That sounds pretty weak though.

You should consolidate this theory to one thread or we're liable to have a discussion about it in two places. However, if you're insisting that Mel will resurrect Jon, I'd like to venture a guess that Lightbringer is not a sword but a dragon. Specifically, the dragon that was living under Winterfell... .

Also, Tyrion doesn't know what's up with Cersei. News doesn't travel quite that fast especially considering the situations he's in in ADWD.

 

[Needle]

Does Tyrion know what's become of Cersei? I think he hasn't received any news of her being "arrested', but I've yet to do a DWD re-read, so i'm not at all sure

I am pretty sure no word on Cersei has reached Tyrion since he left KL, except that she wants his head, which he didn't need to be told!

I've3 been reading over the House of Undying prophecy, the Rhaegar section in particular. i'm totally convinced now that-

The woman with Rhaegar was Lyanna Stark

Jon Snow is the true Aegon.

Aegon/Young Griff is a feint/red herring contrived by Varys to buy time.

Jon=Aegon=Azor Ahai. He will be re-born when he is ressurrected after dying at the end of ADWD. He will the the unifying force that bonds ice with Fire and will probably NOT be one of the heads of the dragon. i'm not sure where Lightbringer will come from. Maybe LongcLaw will glow after he is ressurrected. That sounds pretty weak though.

Apologies if this isn't new, but it's new to ME I've never thought of the woman with Rhaegar in the vision as being Lyanna.

Imp, I had this thought once upon a time(the Jon=Aegon part anyway) and dismissed it as completely crazy! Doesn't sound so crazy now!

 

[Darth Gregor]

I need to add a clarification (and introduction) to the initial post in this thread

As I re-read my post I realized that I could've introduced the topic (and myself) a little better.

I realized that I may have sounded like the new kid excited to re-explain the wheel (e.g. 'I think I know what The Dragon has three heads means'). I've been lurking on this board for a while and thought it might be useful to list all the unresolved prophecies in a single thread. Wasn't trying to take credit for the various theories or explain them as if they're new - (in fact I'd been strongly opposed to the idea of Tyrion being a Targerian until this board swayed me... mothers of all three dragons dying in childbirth that finally convinced me).

The Imp has been telling me to check out this board for a while. Glad I finally got around to it. Was introduced to the series about five years ago. Have gone through three re-reads of the first four books and will probably re-read Dance later this summer.

I have a few theories/questions, that I've been kicking around, but I'll make sure that they haven't been discussed to ad nasuem before giving my 2cents.

I think we can figure out a lot about where the final two books are headed based upon the outstanding prophecies. Here are the big ones I can think of - I'm sure there are plenty I've missed - feel free to add them in:



This one is loaded:
1) Dany for sure.
2) Jon probably (find it hard to believe he's dead or won't be resurrected in human form).
3) Aegon or Tyrion. Is Aegon a fake? Is Tyrion the Mad King's son? Are they both Targeryans, but is Aegon not going to survive?



Cersei is convinced that this is Margery. However, I believe at one point, Cersei comments on how Margery isn't any more beautiful than she is. The younger queen is likely Dany when she makes landfall. As for "take all that you hold dear," this might suggest that Cersei is able to bounce back from her humiliating walk of shame and rule the kingdom as Queen regent again - which is very likely with Kevan Lannister out of the picture. It could also refer to the lives of her two remaining children.



Shroud, which I had to look up, is often used to refer to a burial sheet. I suspect this means that she will live to see all her children perish (although it doesn't say this explicitly). In her grief "the valonquar" (younger brother) will choke the life from her.

I find it interesting that she mentions Cersei's pale throat. My guess is that it's to contrast against the gold hand that will choke her. The valonquar could be any younger brother - however, I suspect it refers to her younger brother Jaime.



At the time, I assumed this meant never. I still have a hard time believing that Drago will return. However, as pointed by other, it's possible that a lot of the events indicated in this prophecy are occurring.

- Sun rising in West and setting in East (Quentyn Martell, born in Westeros and dying in the East in Mereen).

- "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves." Not so sure we've seen this part yet.

- "When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child." I'm assuming her heavy period at the end of the book means that she's not barren after all.

Still have a hard time believing that Khal Drago returns from the dead - so I'm not sure what this all means.

----

There are a number of others of outstanding prophecies, if I have time I'll add some more (unless someone wants to beat me to the punch )

 

[xLORDSNOWx]

Someone had said something about the seas going dry being the Dothraki Sea drying up and the mountains being the pyramid(s) of Meereen

Isn't the Dothraki sea, a land of grass?

 

[IlliferThePenniless]

Does Tyrion know what's become of Cersei? I think he hasn't received any news of her being "arrested', but I've yet to do a DWD re-read, so i'm not at all sure

I don't think Tyrion has any specific knowledge, he just knows his sister well enough she'll be a disaster as a regent.

 

[IlliferThePenniless]

I've3 been reading over the House of Undying prophecy, the Rhaegar section in particular. i'm totally convinced now that-

The woman with Rhaegar was Lyanna Stark

Jon Snow is the true Aegon.

Aegon/Young Griff is a feint/red herring contrived by Varys to buy time.

Jon=Aegon=Azor Ahai. He will be re-born when he is ressurrected after dying at the end of ADWD. He will the the unifying force that bonds ice with Fire and will probably NOT be one of the heads of the dragon. i'm not sure where Lightbringer will come from. Maybe LongcLaw will glow after he is ressurrected. That sounds pretty weak though.

Apologies if this isn't new, but it's new to ME I've never thought of the woman with Rhaegar in the vision as being Lyanna.

I don't understand how this would work... Aegon was a real child with Targ featured. He wouldn't have been a secret. If the woman in the vision is Lyanna, why is Rheagar naming another son Aegon.

I think you might be over thinking things.

 

[The Imp]

I don't understand how this would work... Aegon was a real child with Targ featured. He wouldn't have been a secret. If the woman in the vision is Lyanna, why is Rheagar naming another son Aegon.

I think you might be over thinking things.

yes, you're right. Thgis was actually pointed out to me by Darth Gregor last night as well. I just get the feeling that the woman wasn't Illia. She says to him "what will YOU name him?" rather than "what will WE name him?" GRRM is also very careful not to describe the woman, although he makes a point of describing the man so he can be idenified as Rhaegar.

 

[juleska]

I've3 been reading over the House of Undying prophecy, the Rhaegar section in particular. i'm totally convinced now that-

The woman with Rhaegar was Lyanna Stark

Jon Snow is the true Aegon.

Aegon/Young Griff is a feint/red herring contrived by Varys to buy time.

Jon=Aegon=Azor Ahai. He will be re-born when he is ressurrected after dying at the end of ADWD. He will the the unifying force that bonds ice with Fire and will probably NOT be one of the heads of the dragon. i'm not sure where Lightbringer will come from. Maybe LongcLaw will glow after he is ressurrected. That sounds pretty weak though.

Apologies if this isn't new, but it's new to ME I've never thought of the woman with Rhaegar in the vision as being Lyanna.

Now that I'm done with ADWD I've been wanting to go back and re-read the House of Undying Prophecy to try and make sense of all that. It was a lot to absorb at the time and little of it made sense. What you're proposing is a pretty big shift in the conventional thinking but.....wow. Jon Snow as the real Aegon.

I've been wondering what the deal was / would be with Aegon. He was introduced so late in the game and he seems destined to die quickly. There's no way the kid we know as Aegon can sit the Iron Throne, not over Dany, and he would be in line for the throne before her if he was legit.

Only thing is....it's widely known that Elia had a son and they called that son Aegon. If Jon is the son of Lyanna (and I still believe he is, that blue rose in the wall of ice....) then how does that reconcile with Elia's son? If that whole thing turned out to be a feint (that Elia never had a son at all) that would be a little bit of a cheap plot trick.

There's also Varys and what he says of Young Griff / Aegon.....he tells Kevan that he's ensured Aegon was raised properly and fully prepared to sit the Iron Throne. He's obviously not talking about Jon, and Varys would have to know.

I like your theory, and I want it to be true! I'm just not sure it can work with what we know.