Kindle - good idea for self-publishing?

[Templar]

Hi guys,

I popped up here a few months ago, mostly to read around and get a few hints, took part in the May 2011 300 word challenge and promptly stopped posting after my backside was unceremoniously handed to me (Not one vote!!).

One thing I wanted to ask you guys about was your views on self-publishing on Kindle. I've just put my first work up there without really making much effort to look at "real" publishers. Partially because I couldn't face the ignominy of being rejected ad nauseum but mainly because I wanted to control the whole project myself, from start to finish.

Now, I'm not going to spam this site with links about it, I was just interested in your views. Do you think this is the future of publishing as we know it, or a massive waste of my time? I'm honestly not that interested in making a living as a fantasy writer, for me it is more of a hobby that might bring in a few roubles, so I doubt I've messed up my whole career because of this.

Anyway, just wondered what the general consensus was. There is a great blog by J A Konrath that veritably spews love for the Kindle publishing concept (which, if I'm honest, made my mind up for me), but it's easy to say that from a successful point of view.

Anyway: Self publishing on Kindle. Discuss.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

I have very little opinion as yet regarding self-publishing on Kindle, as I don't have a Kindle (I have a Sony e-reader), so I'll leave that to people who know more.

I do have an opinion on dropping out after receiving no votes in one (one!) story Challenge.

Slap!!!

I've never done that before, but it needed to be done.

If everyone who received no votes in the first 75-word Challenge had dropped out, there wouldn't have been a second one! Seriously, it was most of us. Try, try again! Most of us still haven't won a Challenge yet, but the winning is in the doing -- in being successful at crafting a story in 75 or 300 words, and being brave enough to post it for the world to see.

Speaking of which, there is still over a week left in which to post a story in this month's 75-word Story Challenge, so you can still redeem yourself.

 

[The Judge]

I popped up here a few months ago... took part in the May 2011 300 word challenge and promptly stopped posting after my backside was unceremoniously handed to me (Not one vote!!).

Hmmm. Well, better than having a hissy fit on our doorstep, I suppose, but you do realise that you weren't being picked on, I take it? Quite a few stories ended up with no votes. There's no ignominy in that. You've missed this quarter's 300 worder (though you are in time to vote -- something I think you forgot to do last time, if I'm not mistaken) but there's a 75 worder in hand if you want to try again.

Now, I'm not going to spam this site with links about it

Good. Because if you tried you would definitely have your rear end handed back to you and in a much more painful fashion...


Anyway, if you read around there are plenty of threads about self-publishing and/or kindle -- mostly in the publishing sub-forum, which is where I shall spirit this.



PS I see TDZ has beaten me to the punch -- and the slap...!

 

[Templar]

Don't worry, I didn't leave in a huff, rather to go concentrate on what I was writing! In the nicest possible way, this place can be a bit of a time-sink!

I will read around, just wondered people's views on it. I've gained 2 sales so far (Not bad for the first 24 hours!) and will be in profit after a paltry 64 books (Cover art cost me £60, and I've even factored tax into the mix), so I honestly thought it worth a punt. Better than having a completed manuscript gathering dust in a drawer somewhere.

 

[Simon Haynes]

I believe Kindle plus Smashwords plus Lightning Source (the latter for printed editions) are the best combination. If you want to do things properly, get one ISBN for the Kindle & Smashwords edition, and another for the LSI printed one. LSI now prints in Australia too. You can reach all three major markets using one company. Now, 'reach' is nowhere near the same as 'distribution', and I'm not suggesting this solution is the first OR the best choice for anyone. Try for an agent & trade publishing, keep writing novels, but if your patience eventually wears out (mine took 6 years), then it may be time to investigate options like self-pub. (I'm trade published in Australia but haven't been able to break the doors down anywhere else.)

 

[Templar]

Thanks for the tips Simon. I'm already with Smashwords (Got my first sale there within minutes of it being released), but I hadn't heard of Lightening Source. I was considering using Createspace should I decide hard copies are worth a punt, but I think that will be a long way away, if at all. I do have an ISBN for the Smashwords one, which you need for iPad apparently, so I think I'll use that one for Kindle.

I'm finding the whole thing fascinating, getting the cover made to my specs, wondering how I can publicise it for free, even the formatting (normally a tedious job) got me hooked. I'm big on learning to do everything myself, and I like that I get to treat this as a hobby, without having a trad publisher breathing down my neck, setting me deadlines etc.

If anyone is interested, email me and I'll send you a free version for your kindle (I think I have figured out how to gift them) or I'll try to generate a free coupon from Smashwords for anyone from this site.

Not that I'm allowed to link yet, but I'll work that out when I get to it!

(In other news - it's been up on Kindle less than 24 hours and I'm on 3 copies already, and 1 on Smashwords! I know, it's pathetic, but give me a break, it's only day 2!)

 

[Vertigo]

I would say that's pretty encouraging for day two!

I'm no author and have no real knowledge of the ins and outs of publishing and self publishing. However it might be interesting to look at John Scalzi, now a mainstream SF published author but his first book (Agent To the Stars) he simply put up on the web for free asking for donations if you liked it. He astonsidhed himself by making over $4000 of five years. But more importantly he felt he learnt so much from it that he had no problem getting a publisher for his next novel (Old Man's War). He talks about all this and still provides Agent To The Stars as a free download on his site at: http://www.scalzi.com/agent/ The book, by the way, is actually a very good SF spoof. It is a little ragged around the edges but it is a first novel and I thoroughly enjoyed it!

Edit: it's actually worth going to the end of that page and viewing the comments that many people have left and, more importantly, John Scalzi's responses; for example just looking at them now I hadn't realised that he actually put his second novel Old Man's War (which incidentally went on to be a Hugo nominee) on his site as well... until Tor saw it there and bought it!

 

[Templar]

Thanks for the link Vertigo - just had a quick browse and the story of him writing it sounds very very familiar indeed! I wrote my book because I was living alone in a house with no TV and only a dongle for internet. I got bored, and thanks to a comment on a friend's facebook page I decided to see if I could write a novel. I always said that if I finished it I'd stick it on Kindle, and if I made £50 then that was enough for a few beers and I'd be happy. Eventually I decided that I had to get a cover done, on the basis that I probably wouldn't get to £50 without one, so now I have 2 targets: £64 to repay the price of the cover and £175 so I can buy my very own Kindle. Anything more is a big fat Brucie bonus!

It's funny you mention the fact that Tor saw it online and bought it. The blog I've been reading - a newbie's guide to publishing, by J A Konrath (can't link to it, but you can google it) - and the author proses about the future of publishing, and firmly believes that authors will increasingly be selected from self-published ebooks. That way the publishing houses can guarantee they have a hit on their hands, rather than chancing it, as they effectively do right now.

I don't completely agree with everything he says on there, but a lot of it makes a lot of sense. He also did something similar to Scalzi, in giving away one of his books and a few short stories. He believes that these are ways of getting people interested in his style of writing, in the hope they will buy something. At the end of the day it cost him nothing to write, so it is worth trying I guess.

 

[Vertigo]

Well I tend to agree and in Scalzi's case, I loved his ATTS book and went on to buy all his Old Man's War books and one other and I have enjoyed them enough that I will probably get the other two or three he has out as well. So I guess his strategy worked just fine with me

 

[Templar]

I'm sure it does! Still, it's one thing to give away an old book and hope people buy your new ones (Smart strategy) and a completely different thing to give away your one and only book in the hope you'll manage write another one that is anyway near as good! As a strategy that would require certain anatomical parts made of steel!

 

[Vertigo]

Well as I understand it that is exactly what Scalzi did. Agent to the Stars wasn't an old book, it was his first and he put it on the web before starting his second (Old Man's War). To be fair he says he didn't really write it to sell but rather to see if he could seriously make a novel writer. Also although he was giving it away he did get a return since enough people chose to pay the voluntary $2.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

JA Konrath, of course, is a huge proponent of self-publishing. Not surprising, considering that he, at least, has managed to be quite successful at it. Of course, it might not be the same for everyone. In fact, it definitely isn't. There are hundreds of self-published authors out there, but very few Konraths.

What I found more suprising was a news story a few months ago. An author by the name of Barry Eisler -- whose books have apparently made it on The New York Times Bestseller lists, though I confess I had not heard of him until prior to this -- turned down a whopping $500,000 contract to go the self-publishing route. Konrath even interviewed him for his blog subsequent to the decision.

He had his reasons, and certainly the fact that he is already a bestselling author with an established fan-base who will buy his self-published books makes it a little easier.

Still. Gutsy move.

 

[rdenning]

You can sell books on Kindle as a self published author. You still need to write a decent book, get it edited, have a good cover etc and then get some reviews.
In 8 months I have sold about 150 e-books on kindle . So nothing vast but a trickle.
But I have not done that much marketing and I think that is the key that these million sales guys get right.

 

[alchemist]

I don't intend to self-publish so will say little else except...

Hi guys,

I popped up here a few months ago, mostly to read around and get a few hints, took part in the May 2011 300 word challenge and promptly stopped posting after my backside was unceremoniously handed to me (Not one vote!!).

...I gave you an honourable mention in the discussion thread. So there!

 

[Templar]

Don't worry Alchemist, I do remember getting a few mentions in dispatches! It was just a good solid reality check, that's all. Sometimes if you don't hang out with other writers (And generally I don't) you can end up believing your own hype a little. It was what I needed to make me concentrate a little more on my editing.

DA, I heard about the Barry Eisler thing too. Big risk to take, but you're right, if he's established then it isn't so bad. And all the press about him turning down the money can only help sell his book. I know most people have very few sales on kindle, but I can guarantee I'll sell more in Kindle than I will by leaving the manuscript in my desk drawer (Well, on my hard-drive at least). It wasn't written to make a profit, but to entertain me and keep me sane when I could literally go 2 days without speaking to another human being. As long as I sell more than 64 I'll be in profit and I'll be happy.

rdenning, you're right about the marketing. I have no idea how to do it really, but I'm having a go in a rather half-baked way. A friend has offered to buy the book and review it very highly, and to get others to do the same, but at this stage I feel it is cheating. Maybe in 2 months when I've sold 19 I may think again.

One thing has kind of worked out in my plan so far: my book is intended to be an "open source" book, one where people can use the characters in their own stories if they like, and can respond on my fledgling blog about the book, what they liked and didn't. That feedback - what there is - may well end up shaping the second edition of the book. You may think it is a stupid idea (and I wouldn't blame you), but I've already had feedback from the first reader who bought it. Her feedback may have been limited to "I enjoyed reading your book, but the joke about the Italians didn't go down well, as I'm Italian", but it shows that it just might work.

Alternatively, it could turn me into a massive laughing stock, but that wouldn't be much of a step down in the world frankly...

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Well, depending on how seriously you want to promote this (and any future) novels, you would do well to research and read up as much as you can on tips and tricks for promotion.

Smashwords has a marketing guide (available for free) that has some tips. I haven't read it myself, so can't comment on the practicality or effectiveness of it; however, the book does seem to have had a lot of favourable reviews.

Almost too favourable, actually. I'm always skeptical whenever I see a product that seems to have universal praise and near-perfect ratings. Even excellent products aren't perfect, so when I see a whole bunch of 5-star reviews, it makes me wonder how seriously the reviewers took the rating. Generally, from what I've observed, a lot of people seem to prefer the two extremes - if they like something, they'll give it a perfect 10, or they'll give it a one and say it sucks. Not many people bother giving a well-thought out rating.

I think I tend to take this more seriously than some. Even in the rating system of my own personal collection of books in Calibre or music in iTunes, I fret over the rating and wonder if Book X really deserves 4 stars or not. There are a couple of books/albums here and there that I gave 5 stars, but only because they were my favourites and I use them as a 'benchmark' to compare others. And this is just for my own personal collection that no one else will see, and certainly no one cares about.

I guess I'm just anal that way...

 

[DaveWallace]

I agree Templar, that it's far preferable to letting it gather dust in your drawer or on your flash drive. In fact, that's mostly my thinking. That, and like you, I want to recoup my investment and see what the public at large thinks of it. And maybe, just maybe, get enough interest that somewhere down the line a publisher might be interested in something I write.

 

[Templar]

DA, you take ratings waaaaay too seriously! I mean, most of the music on my laptop isn't even labeled correctly, let alone rated! But then I'm using Ubuntu, and the rating system on their music payer is not any good really.

It's funny you should mention the perfect 5 star thing. The friend that is trying to convince me to let him review my book even suggested he create a few 4 star reviews as well, to give it credibility. It just feels like cheating to me, but it's nice to know he's thought out the cheating properly!

I have downloaded that book from Smashwords already, but I find it hard to read on a screen for any length of time. That and I have a million-and-one things going on right now (writing the second book, grievance procedure at work, checking Kindle every 8 minutes to see if I sold another book yet...), but when I have a quiet day - probably this Saturday - I plan to go through it thoroughly. I scanned through some of it already, and have started sending the book out to reviewers, nervy process though that is.

On a slight side note, I know I can't publish links yet, but when I can would people object to me publishing a Smashwords "Free book" coupon for my novel in the Press Release section for you guys? Obviously for me it is a way to get some feedback on everything and hopefully get word out a little, and I don't think it is fair to spam the site and expect you guys to buy it. Would people bother going for that do you think?

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

I'm kindle published and enjoying it a whole lot. I knowwhat you mean about the checking your sales every eight minutes. I don't want to but I still check my sales multiple times a day. I can't speak for the other epublishing sites since I'm not on them, but I imagine that they will mostly follow kindle since Amazon seems to have the marketing share.

I would recommend checking the terms of the contract you signed with Amazon to see if they are happy with you epublishing elsewhere.

As far as sales and reviews go I would say its been a wild ride for me these last few months. I published Maverick on April 25 this year and am closing in on my first thousand sales of it now, which is small potatoes for trad published authors but awesome for me. Two others of my books are selling in the hundreds per month as well. But along with the good comes the bad, and I've had to watch sales rise and fall substantially, and also had probably one of the worst reviews ever written by someone who didn't even read the book. That one felt like a bit of a body blow.

So one thing I would recomend strongly for you as a kindle published author, try to keep your distance from all the buzz part. The highs are too high at first, the lows too low.

Best of luck.

 

[Templar]

Are you published with Amazon as the official publisher, or are you self-published with Amazon as one of the distribution channels? If you signed a deal with Amazon that had them doing your marketing etc then you'd be right, you wouldn't be allowed to epub with anyone else. I certainly haven't - the only thing they stipulate from me is that my price with them must be equal to or lower than my price anywhere else. If you are using Amazon as a distributor then I would certainly recommend Smashwords very highly - I've actually had almost as many sales on their site (excluding the free copies I've been handing out) as on Amazon, and I haven't yet got feedback from Sony, B&N, Apple etc yet (It's only been a week, and you don't hear your sales from those places for a few months).

I haven't got any reviews yet, as it's only been a week, but that's one reason I'm handing out free copies (feel free to look in the "press releases" section on here for the coupon code), in the hope that it can generate a couple of reviews, and maybe a recommendation or two. I'e been sending it out to book review blogs too, but none have replied as yet. I suspect they are more likely to take a book from a trad publisher than little ole me, particularly as it's a first book. I'm working hard on the second one (when I'm not reading this site...) in the hope of generating a multiplier effect.

1K sales in 4 months isn't bad at all. In fact I wish I was on track for that! Have you been pushing it pretty hard, or letting it power itself? Still, it's handy second income at 250 sales per month average, plus any other books. I know what you mean about the buzz part, and the highs and lows. I've experienced similar effects working as a TV producer, but at least this time it is all under my control.