Jon Snow & his parents

[vanslyke]

I have almost finished A Dance with Dragons and I am really starting to get furiously curious about who Jon's parents are. I am almost 100% convinced that (despite thousands of ppl agreeing with him being a Targaryen/Stark) that Ned is in fact Jon's father. All the facts surrounding the R+L=J scenario are great ones and do make sense. However, the only thing that nags in my mind is Ghost. All of Ned's kids were blessed with a Direwolf pup...even Jon Snow. If he was Raegar's son why would he be included in this prophecy? He has every bit the honor that Ned had and carries himself in much the same way. Also, if he was the blood of the dragon he would not have been burned by the lantern. Just as Denarys cannot be burned. I see big things for Jon Snow, I believed from the start of the books that Bran and Jon were the most important characters and I still stick with that.

 

[xLORDSNOWx]

I have almost finished A Dance with Dragons and I am really starting to get furiously curious about who Jon's parents are. I am almost 100% convinced that (despite thousands of ppl agreeing with him being a Targaryen/Stark) that Ned is in fact Jon's father. All the facts surrounding the R+L=J scenario are great ones and do make sense. However, the only thing that nags in my mind is Ghost. All of Ned's kids were blessed with a Direwolf pup...even Jon Snow. If he was Raegar's son why would he be included in this prophecy? He has every bit the honor that Ned had and carries himself in much the same way. Also, if he was the blood of the dragon he would not have been burned by the lantern. Just as Denarys cannot be burned. I see big things for Jon Snow, I believed from the start of the books that Bran and Jon were the most important characters and I still stick with that.

I'm afraid that you will be hit with a plethra of previous thread discussions on this subject so i'll respond quickly and get out of the way before they start pelting you with them.

I thought about the latern burning Jon's hand as well, but that doesnt really rule him out as Viserys was burned and he was a true blooded Targ, just as Dany was.

Oh crap, i already hear the threads being hyperlinked. You better watch out.

Oh, and welcome to the forum. We love green boys and girls with new theories....

 

[vanslyke]

lol I knew I'd be hit with a barrage of newbie comments and such. It's deserved and expected.

 

[Seferbo]

I thought about the latern burning Jon's hand as well, but that doesnt really rule him out as Viserys was burned and he was a true blooded Targ, just as Dany was.

Ahh but one could argue there is quite a difference between fire and molten gold. And even so Jon would only be half Targ if the popular theory is true. Maybe his other hand is immune to fire

 

[vanslyke]

Also, Jon is a warg, like the rest of Ned's kids.

 

[xLORDSNOWx]

Ahh but one could argue there is quite a difference between fire and molten gold. Not to mention Jon would only be half Targ if the popular theory is true. Maybe his other hand is immune to fire

Fair enough. I would like the fire and molten gold test to be given to Young Griff as well while we're at it.

 

[C Of K]

However, the only thing that nags in my mind is Ghost. All of Ned's kids were blessed with a Direwolf pup...even Jon Snow. If he was Raegar's son why would he be included in this prophecy?

Good point, and welcome to the forum. We hope to see a lot of posting from you. But are you certain the prophecy was about all of Ned's kids? It very easily could have been about all Stark children, and that would have covered things quite well. If Jon is Lyanna's son, he is still half Stark.

He has every bit the honor that Ned had and carries himself in much the same way.

I could say that the Blackfish is every bit as honorable as Ned, but he isn't Ned's child. Regardless of who Jon's parents are, Ned raised him.

Also, if he was the blood of the dragon he would not have been burned by the lantern. Just as Denarys cannot be burned.

Not sure I agree with this. Is there some record stating that all Targs can't be burned by fire? It seems to me that would be like saying all Targs can control dragons. Didn't Aegon V die in a fire at Summerhall?

 

[The Imp]

Good point, and welcome to the forum. We hope to see a lot of posting from you. But are you certain the prophecy was about all of Ned's kids? It very easily could have been about all Stark children, and that would have covered things quite well. If Jon is Lyanna's son, he is still half Stark.

I could say that the Blackfish is every bit as honorable as Ned, but he isn't Ned's child. Regardless of who Jon's parents are, Ned raised him.

Not sure I agree with this. Is there some record stating that all Targs can't be burned by fire? It seems to me that would be like saying all Targs can control dragons. Didn't Aegon V die in a fire at Summerhall?

DIdn't Dany nearly get burned at some point?

As for jon's wolf, that "proves' his Stark bloodline, but not that Ned is his father. Also, at this point in the story, having anything else BUT R+L=J wouldn't make sense or add to the story in any way. I think R+L is a given.

 

[Culhwch]

For what it's worth, I agree with you - I think Jon is Ned's son. But I'm the local obstinate, and I've been this way so long that I can't rightly remember just why I thought that. Maybe it's that R+L=J is just a little too obvious.

 

[Ursa major]

Maybe it's that R+L=J is just a little too obvious.

That's always been the reason I've not been behind R+L=J 100%. (By which I mean I think the R+L=J hypothesis is probably true, but I won't be that surprised if it isn't.)

 

[C Of K]

I've never discounted the possibility that Jon is Ned's son. Though I lean more toward R+L=J, I think part of the appeal is that none of us can be 100% positive until he reveals the answer. Thus, we continue to read in order to find out.

All I can say is he began writing ASoIaF before the internet was so widely used for social networking, when many readers would not have even considered R+L=J until George revealed it or dismissed it. That is what really makes the difference. I doubt he's ever changed his mind on the matter just because people are discussing it on the net.

One day, when ASoIAF isn't so widely discussed on the net, and new readers pick up those books, many of them may be surprised if Jon does turn out to be Rhaegar's son.

 

[Culhwch]

That's a good point. I'm not going to rule out the possibility that I'm too much of a dullard to have picked up on it if the internet hadn't told me it was a possibility...

 

[C Of K]

I certainly wouldn't have picked up on it. I'm too used to reading more straightforward fiction.

 

[vanslyke]

K just finished the book...ahhhhh

 

[Needle]

Welcome Vanslyke!

Most of this has been said but here I go anyway!

I am a believer in the R+L=J theory. Jon having a direwolf only proves his Starkness, plus his wolf IS different than the others, hinting that he is different as well, different because his Stark half comes from Lyanna. Regardless he is very much Ned's son because he was raised by Ned, that makes him his father in all the important ways, nature vs nurture I guess but in this case his nature agrees with his nurture!

As for the Targ question, they have died in every way imaginable, including fire and being eaten by dragons! I think only the rare few are actually at least mostly immune to fire, Dany even says of Viserys that he wasn't a dragon because fire can't kill a dragon, even though we know blood wise he was a dragon.

 

[Ursa major]

That's a good point. I'm not going to rule out the possibility that I'm too much of a dullard to have picked up on it if the internet hadn't told me it was a possibility...

I actually worked it out for myself, which is how I know it must be very, very obvious.

 

[C Of K]

Come on, Bear. You're not giving yourself enough credit.

 

[vanslyke]

Welcome Vanslyke!

Most of this has been said but here I go anyway!

I am a believer in the R+L=J theory. Jon having a direwolf only proves his Starkness, plus his wolf IS different than the others, hinting that he is different as well, different because his Stark half comes from Lyanna. Regardless he is very much Ned's son because he was raised by Ned, that makes him his father in all the important ways, nature vs nurture I guess but in this case his nature agrees with his nurture!

Never thought of it like that. Makes a lot of sense.

 

[Blekinge]

Just because R+L=J may seem to obvious to some it doesnt mean it is not true I watched the interview with GRRM where he said that he did not intend to change anything he had thought of at the beginning of the series just because internet forum readers had guessed it before it was even published. He said even he didnt read forums anymore for that reason. I guess it is not so cool as a writer to see that all your clever plotlines are already "obvious" to many.

 

[Seferbo]

Just because R+L=J may seem to obvious to some it doesnt mean it is not true I watched the interview with GRRM where he said that he did not intend to change anything he had thought of at the beginning of the series just because internet forum readers had guessed it before it was even published. He said even he didnt read forums anymore for that reason. I guess it is not so cool as a writer to see that all your clever plotlines are already "obvious" to many.

I agree. Just because it has been guessed doesn't mean it can't be true. Personally I never even thought much of John's parents. I knew there was something significant since it is kept such a mystery, but I never spent an extra minute thinking about it. I mean, the whole story of Rhae "kidnapping" Lyanna and the events prior/during/shortly after the war are all introduced in tiny pieces. Its easy enough to tie em together on your second read but when it is your first time through, many of these briefly mentioned characters don't really stick in your memory.

When I first heard about the common theory mentioned, I admit, I was completely surprised, yet after thinking back and looking at the facts it made more and more sense. It is a wonderful umm twist, if you will, and I believe the majority of you heard the idea from someone else. I know I was delighted when Jon being a Targ became a possibility so even though it will not be a shock for myself I still hope it becomes reality, err in the story.

One is for certain, should R + L come true I do envy the reader who avoided the wonderful internet and is slapped in the face with this whenever Martin decides reveal the facts.